regarding taxes and necessities

[Sekhmet]

I thought I had seen a post here earlier regarding taxes and necessities but I might be incorrect. But I did feel the need to bring this subject up.

People that are on assistance should not be able to buy computers, cigarettes, alcohol, new furniture etc. I pay my tax portion, and more I am sure, and yet I constantly see people who are on "assistance" getting farther ahead than I and my family.

People who live on assistance should not be making a living by doing things on the side that are not claimed tax wise. Nor should they be looking to the government for more help when they may be quiet capable of helping themselves.

People who do such things should be reported for this. It is thievery and incorrect!

That is my opinion.

[Tara]

Also they shouldnt have people living with them when they shouldnt be, and then that persons income is helping pay the bills as well.

[6sixstring6]

hang on, cause you're going to get blasted for thosw statements.

[vanessalynn5484]

People who abuse the system is one thing, but bashing everyone on assistance is so inappropriate. I am sick of reading posts about people putting an entire group of people down. It is narrow-minded. Did you ever stop to think how many people reading these forums may be on assistance and how bad you probably just made them feel about themselves?

What gives you the authority to decide what people on assistance should be able to purchase? I know you may respond "I pay my taxes", but I don't think that answer is good enough.

Also I don't think medical reasons are the only justifiable reasons people may need to go on welfare. Some other examples would be single moms or widows. PLEASE do not start bashing single mothers....I think that [bashing them] is wrong too and will offend a lot of people who do not deserve it.

I think your thread is going to cause fighting among isaintjohners, but good luck with it.

That's just my two cents I guess....

Originally Posted by Sekhmet

I thought I had seen a post here earlier regarding taxes and necessities but I might be incorrect. But I did feel the need to bring this subject up.

People that are on assistance should not be able to buy computers, cigarettes, alcohol, new furniture etc. I pay my tax portion, and more I am sure, and yet I constantly see people who are on "assistance" getting farther ahead than I and my family.

People who live on assistance should not be making a living by doing things on the side that are not claimed tax wise. Nor should they be looking to the government for more help when they may be quiet capable of helping themselves.

People who do such things should be reported for this. It is thievery and incorrect!

That is my opinion.

[Sekhmet]

If I categorized all together that was not my intention.
What was and still is my intention was to give my opinion.
I do not think it is correct for people to get farther ahead on assistance than for working people paying their taxes. Now to be clear about one thing, if you are on assistance, there is very little tax to be paid on your part.
If people see themselves in the category, then one would hope they will think twice.
You asked who was I to saw what a necessity was. Alcohol etc is not a necessity. I am the person who has no issue calling the authorities on people that cheat the system. No issue with it at all.
But people who justifiably Need it, then so be it. But if they chose to be on the system rather than taking the other hard option of working, then that is the issue, a problem.
I did not introduce any other people into this discussion Vanessa-lynn, you did.

This is my opinion.

Hopefully people can see past their ego's to point out their opinions without name calling excetra.

[vanessalynn5484]

People who abuse the system is one thing, but bashing everyone on assistance is so inappropriate. I am sick of reading posts about people putting an entire group of people down. It is narrow-minded. Did you ever stop to think how many people reading these forums may be on assistance and how bad you probably just made them feel about themselves?

What gives you the authority to decide what people on assistance should be able to purchase? I know you may respond "I pay my taxes", but I don't think that answer is good enough.

Also I don't think medical reasons are the only justifiable reasons people may need to go on welfare. Some other examples would be single moms or widows. PLEASE do not start bashing single mothers....I think that [bashing them] is wrong too and will offend a lot of people who do not deserve it.

I think your thread is going to cause fighting among isaintjohners, but good luck with it.

That's just my two cents I guess....

Originally Posted by Sekhmet

I thought I had seen a post here earlier regarding taxes and necessities but I might be incorrect. But I did feel the need to bring this subject up.

People that are on assistance should not be able to buy computers, cigarettes, alcohol, new furniture etc. I pay my tax portion, and more I am sure, and yet I constantly see people who are on "assistance" getting farther ahead than I and my family.

People who live on assistance should not be making a living by doing things on the side that are not claimed tax wise. Nor should they be looking to the government for more help when they may be quiet capable of helping themselves.

People who do such things should be reported for this. It is thievery and incorrect!

That is my opinion.

[puppyluv]

Since my post was the original that I hid, I will clarify what I said and what I meant.

3 years ago I was on Training , Education adn Delvelopment..basically assistance/unemployment so I could go back to school.
I recieved a certain amount of money, in which I had to pay my bills, mortgage, truck, etc etc etc etc.
While in school, to survive, I maxxed out my line of credit, my credit cards etc just so I could afford to do it... I worked part time in the summer and claimed it. I tried in the fall and couldnt do it so I left work for school.
This was my decision to max them out, to get my ged etc, and we are still trying to recoup and re-pay....

But I wasnt one of the people at the school that had flash new clothing, or expensive bags, or bragged about how high or stoned or drunk the weekend party was, or always bought lunch out or took cabs to work etc.
I was one of those students who wore the same OLD clothes, took lunches and stressed about how I was going to survive on it. Assistance was not a long term thing for me. It wasnt enjoyable, it wasnt easy and we certainly couldnt buy anything new! We would have returned the truck if we could have just to make living a better option!

My point was, (and people are missing it here) was it was not supposed to be easy...and I find it maddening that some people seem to find it easy.

[vanessalynn5484]

Although I do not agree with everything you said, I apologize for making my post sound like it was only directed towards you (as far as generalizing people goes). I did not see puppyluv's initial thread, but now that I have read it I understand where you are coming from Sekhmet.

Some other similar posts had hurt some really nice people's feelings and I guess it just didn't sit right with me. Hopefully this thread won't result in fighting and such.

Also I don't know why, but my post seems to have been duplicated in this thread.....hmmm....

Originally Posted by Sekhmet

If I categorized all together that was not my intention.
What was and still is my intention was to give my opinion.
I do not think it is correct for people to get farther ahead on assistance than for working people paying their taxes. Now to be clear about one thing, if you are on assistance, there is very little tax to be paid on your part.
If people see themselves in the category, then one would hope they will think twice.
You asked who was I to saw what a necessity was. Alcohol etc is not a necessity. I am the person who has no issue calling the authorities on people that cheat the system. No issue with it at all.
But people who justifiably Need it, then so be it. But if they chose to be on the system rather than taking the other hard option of working, then that is the issue, a problem.
I did not introduce any other people into this discussion Vanessa-lynn, you did.

This is my opinion.

Hopefully people can see past their ego's to point out their opinions without name calling excetra.

[Dan_Man]

Well said puppyluv!

[girdy]

Here's my attempt at an answer to try and tidy up what's a difficult subject.

Government assistance (GST, Welfare, EI, ...) is intended to be a hand up, not a hand out.

There are legitimate reasons people require a hand up - medical disability or unfortunate temporary circumstances for example, and it's an obligation by our well-off society to provide a hand up to those who require help for valid reasons.

We should be helping the hand up people - even if for selfish purposes because sometime down the road we might ourselves need a hand up, and they might be the ones whose taxes enable that to happen.

A hand up means helping someone get well, to get trained for a self-sufficient income, or to make it through the unfortunate temporary circumstance to the point that they no longer require the hand up.

A hand out, is where someone deliberately perpetuates the government assistance rather than take steps within their control to sustain themselves.

Any of us not in hand out situations take great offense at the people we see in the hand out situations, because it's our current or future taxes that are being handed out.

When we express frustration at the hand out people, it's not intended to be a slight on the hand up people.

[care1978]

Originally Posted by girdy

Here's my attempt at an answer to try and tidy up what's a difficult subject.

Government assistance (GST, Welfare, EI, ...) is intended to be a hand up, not a hand out.

There are legitimate reasons people require a hand up - medical disability or unfortunate temporary circumstances for example, and it's an obligation by our well-off society to provide a hand up to those who require help for valid reasons.

We should be helping the hand up people - even if for selfish purposes because sometime down the road we might ourselves need a hand up, and they might be the ones whose taxes enable that to happen.

A hand up means helping someone get well, to get trained for a self-sufficient income, or to make it through the unfortunate temporary circumstance to the point that they no longer require the hand up.

A hand out, is where someone deliberately perpetuates the government assistance rather than take steps within their control to sustain themselves.

Any of us not in hand out situations take great offense at the people we see in the hand out situations, because it's our current or future taxes that are being handed out.

When we express frustration at the hand out people, it's not intended to be a slight on the hand up people.

my thoughts exactly!!!!!

[sjchickie]

I think the only thing i have to say about this is someone made that comment that people on assistance shouldnt have people living with them

Let me tell you this much...when i first had my daughter i was 40 hours short for Unemployment and was forced to go on assistance. Not something i wanted to do but proud or not i did it. HAD IT NOT BEEN for my roommate my daughter and i would have been living in poverty like conditions and 2 people can NOT live off what the government gives you plus your child tax benefit.

I think people on assistance should be able to live with whomever they want to increase the chances their children wont be living in poverty and so that mum can feel better about herself for having an extra 100 a month to do something nice for herself and her child.

NB is so much behind other provinces its sickening...In ontario for example anyone on assistance can live with anyone they want as long as your worker knows who. Whats so wrong with that???? I take pride in my nice things and had it not been for a roommate going in on bills with me I wouldnt be where i am today. We should encourage more people on assistance to live together with someone else OR with a roommate or a friend or family ...why? because its better for society..people on social assistance in this province get treated like a number like they arent even human becuase they are down on there luck!!!and someone had the nerve to comment that they had nicer things than they did..WHO CARES who has what...your tax paying dollars are gonna go somewhere else if not to a family who needs it. YES people screw over the system but people also break the law by screwing EI, income tax, and lots of other money things and we are harping on those down on there luck who really arent greedy. No alcohol isnt a necessity but your *removed*right that some of those moms on assistance deserve a night out on the town!!!!!!! everybody does...Im so sorry to see people stereotyping others like this..just disgusts me...
its just sad that other human beings wants restrictions put on others because of A) a few losers screwing the system (but heck that happens with stuff other than assistance) and B) because "my tax paying dollars are going to..." and blah blah blah...god we are all human poor or rich white or black
Doesnt matter your tax paying dollars are getting sucked out of you regardless

[girdy]

Originally Posted by sjchickie

WHO CARES who has what...your tax paying dollars are gonna go somewhere else if not to a family who needs it. YES people screw over the system but people also break the law by screwing EI, income tax, and lots of other money things and we are harping on those down on there luck who really arent greedy.

its just sad that other human beings wants restrictions put on others because of A) a few losers screwing the system (but heck that happens with stuff other than assistance) and B) because "my tax paying dollars are going to..." and blah blah blah...god we are all human poor or rich white or black
Doesnt matter your tax paying dollars are getting sucked out of you regardless

So paraphrased, you're saying that we shouldn't be concerned about welfare fraud, because our tax money would be spent elsewhere?

Like health care for the sick?

Like education for our children?

Ya, I'm sure nobody here would want that. (sic)

[sjchickie]

No what im saying is who the heck are you to tell people on assistance who they can and cant live with????Because the government gives you tax paying dollars you should live in some scummy 400 a month apartment in dirty area alone you and your child. What i was trying to get across was that you are focused on one minority group ...people who commit welfare fraud. What about those who commit EI fraud??? they are also taking your tax paying dollars.....What about people who lie on their income tax???They are also making others suffer for their greediness. God forbid people on welfare be allowed to live with others to supliment another source of income so that maybe they are able to do something other than sit at home and wallow????

Here is my sense why in gods name would a single mother go take out a 20,000 student loan to live for the year. When they could be on assistance and only take out a loan for books childcare and tuition. AND have a person live with them and help with bills.

OBVIOUSLY people cheating the system shouldnt be allowed...Duh? its fraud what im saying is those few people should not deter family and community services and the general public from seeing that many single mothers who are NOT committing fraud need a helping hand weather it be from a friend, roommate, border, or parents. Who cares as long as that innocent child is being brought up right

[girdy]

Thanks for the clarification.

[sjchickie]

uhuh!!!!!

[marriedchickie]

just a point that wasn't mentioned. IF a parent on income assistance finds a part time job, (and i do mean IF) you can ask the government for help with child care and make an extra 200 a month (i believe) to suppliment as well. It gives the parent time away from home to help them feel better, as well as time away from the children to give them time from mom/dad to be more confident. Not asking to start a big isaintjohn war, just a point that wasn't mentioned.

[tred816]

Has anyone here ever been on Welfare and tried to get work without it nearly putting them out on the street?
The system will pay for daycare, but if it's a private sitter, the worker has the power to take several months before the babysitter begins getting paid. Any babysitter worth his/her salt is going to want to get paid weekly or at least monthly.
I can't tell you how many times I fought the uphill battle to get off the system. I went to college, worked part time jobs, starved, did the food bank think a couple of times (which was extremely embarassing to my pride) and still got sucked back in due to things like my worker telling me, oh well, it's not my problem.

Sorry, but our system completely sucks when it comes to encouraging people to become self-sufficient.

At least they've put the health card into place. I couldn't get that either and my son has ADHD and tourettes syndrome ($200/mo for meds). Try keeping a babysitter with a kid on their ceiling?

This happens to a lot of parents on income assistance. I was one of the lucky ones who beat my head against a brick wall for ten years, but have 3.5 years on my own now.

Not everyone has the willpower to fight the battle. It isn't easy, but it sure is worth it to hold your head up high.

Now, that being said. I have my feelings about those who commit fraud, I agree with sharing living expenses within reason. There's no reason whatsoever that you should reap the rewards and be rolling in dough thanks to a room mate.
There should be a slight reduction in your check. I don't agree with the law here that states you are a common law couple if two women are room mates. That should be changed ASAP. It's a gender stereotype and if both women have kids, they should each get their own check. (reduced by a small amount for the convenience of being able to share accomodations)

I'm not on either side, but I saw 90% of the people I knew when I was on income assistance cheating the system however they could. They partied, did drugs, left their kids night after night and lied when they worked, got babysitting checks by having someone babysit and sign it over to them and on and on.

Even good, hard working people who were trying to get off the system, still felt like they had to cheat the system in order to get the boost they needed to get off because it was so difficult.

I'd like to know how the 10% of law-abiding people all ended up on isaintjohn? Where were you when I was struggling to work and watching all my friends blow their checks on garbage and come banging on my door to borrow cigarette money while their kids had no food?

I'm not saying anyone here is like that, but I saw a whole lot more people out there cheating the system and milking the gov for every penny they could get and just can't believe that it's stopped just like that.

There's nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions about it. It's not against the good guys. If you know you are doing right by your government and not cheating the system, then obviously none of the comments in these threads should be taken as attacks.

I take no offense, knowing I worked hard and went to school, did what I had to do. But, honesty is a starting point and the cold hard truth is, there are way too many people out there who are leaching the system. They could be homeless elsewhere, but cry out over the government not giving them enough to live on when they don't deserve it in the first place.

I won't apologize for these comments because they aren't directed at anyone other than the people who are leaching off the system.

If you're ill, a parent who's got good reason to be home with your child/ren, elderly etc... whatever, then I have complete respect for your situation and don't mean any offense.

[Cherry Pop]

I definately have something to say here!! First of all I don't drink, don't smoke, and don't do drugs! Any "nice things" I have, I got while I was working and could afford them. On income assistance you can't afford "nice things"! With all the bills from rent, "basic" phone sevice, heat, etc. I barely have enough money left for groceries after everything is paid out. A lot of the time, I have to put my groceries on a credit card because I simply can't afford food! Then it takes me months to pay on the amount I put on the credit card. I can only hardly afford the basics of life being on assistance and I definately am not better off than the working family!! I have worked before I got sick and worked hard. I have now seen both sides - being poor and being not poor. I'll take working and being not poor, thank you. The stress I have everyday while being on assistance is unreal, worrying every moment how I'll pay for basic things like milk and bread. I never had to worry about that when I was working. I am hoping that my next surgery will put a end to my health problems that I will finally be well to carry on with my life - to finally get my life back. You see I for one have a valid reason for being on assistance right now - I can't do most things other people do right now. I don't have a life - I have to sit home on my couch and do nothing. Let me tell you it is no fun! I can barely play with my kid - I want my life back, I want to work! I want energy to play with my kid! I want to be able to go out and do fun things but at this moment I can't. My mind is great, my body isn't! I am tired of being sick and I am tired of being on assistance. Most of all I am tired of peoples attitudes of people who are on assistance! Not everyone is sponging the system. Being sick isn't the only valid reason to be on assistance, I'm just using my situation as an example. I certainly hope the people on here who look down at the people on assistance never have to be on it because then they would see the discrimination and the hardships of being on it. I don't wish anyone to be in my situation at all and I for one can feel compassion for people who have it hard!

[Cherry Pop]

FYI to the person who started this post: I worked and went to college through most of my sickness and after my first few surgeries. It has only been the last few years that I couldn't work, mainly from having to travel to Ontario every 4-6 months for surgery and due to the complications from my surgeries!