Conservative, Is it the best policy?

[rhiley_08j]

I know before I even start this thread that it is going to stir up some commotion, but in all honesty, this city is way to conservative for it's own good. Most of the population is afraid of change and when they see change coming they do whatever they can do try and stop it. Do people really need to wonder why most skilled tradesman leave to go out west. There is nothing here in this city. On a rainy day what can you possible do around here other than go to a movie or go bowling. Yipee that's only fun about the hundredth time you do it. I was in Moncton the other day, and no wonder the majority of business opportunities go there. Lots to do, things to suit every variety of people, and the fact that the actually want to modernize there and move into the future. Don't get me wrong I love Saint John's heritage and it's "charm" but let's face it the past is the past and the only way to create more opportunities in the city is to stop holding on to the past and move ahead. Let's start the ball rollin, let's here what others have to say.

[Mandi]

What avenues of entertainment would you suggest that this city should persue? Personally -ready to get flamed- What is wrong with a strip bar? Having one located next to a high school, surely is not a good idea, but all in all, what is wrong with one?

[rhiley_08j]

I agree with you Mandi, just driving down Mountain Road in Moncton, there were at least 3 adult entertainment facilities, however we have one in Saint John, and they try to do whatever they can to get rid of it. I can see people point of view that they say that it tear the morals of society apart, but come on have you watched tv lately or listened to the radio, I mean words that were once taboo or adult situations that you would only see in an R rated movie are now common place, and as for prostitution and drug use, hello, have these people not drove down waterloo st before the strip joint was in place, in fact since it has been there, and I am sure it is a coincidence, but there is barely any prostitutes on Waterloo anymore. However, I wasn't necessarily referring to adult entertainment facilities, I am just saying that anytime a developer tries to come to the city with a new business they are costantly faced with nay sayers. Most people that live in Saint John will say that this city sucks, or complain about it, but when something is introduced that will change the city these are the same people that will complain about it as well.

[Smash]

I agree Mandi! Knowing that its there is much less harmful to our city than most of the stuff that we see while watching TV today, hear on the news, listen to in music.

Each person would have their right to either go or not go....

I'm sure there is going to be alot of angry responses to this! :eek:
This is definately going to be a very heated debate.

[Smash]

Well said rhiley_08j!!!

[rhiley_08j]

BRING ON THE RAIN!!!:biggrin:

[subaru2222]

If people don't like it then they should move. Saint John is what it is. Give everybody tons of money and this would be a booming place full of anything you can think of. My 2 cents worth... wait I need those 2 cents to pay for parking :)

[Mandi]

If people don't like it then they should move. Saint John is what it is. Give everybody tons of money and this would be a booming place full of anything you can think of. My 2 cents worth... wait I need those 2 cents to pay for parking :)
I think that's the problem... people don't like it and they are moving.

[rhiley_08j]

Well said Mandi, thanks for pointing out what I thought most would see as one of the main points of my forum:rofl:

[morbidterrors]

Just like any other city, things must change with the times

More change=more opportunities for, work, play and all around happy living

[adm]

So - a strip club is the answer to our problems?

What about a second refinery that is going to bring a thousand high paying jobs and bring some of our expatriots home who have gone to work in the Alberta oilsands?

Wait - that strip club will bring in at least a dozen imported strippers being guarded by a hard-nosed pimp....

Yeah - that'll help 'The John'. At least the drug dealers will get more business.

[morbidterrors]

what does change have to do with strip clubs? not trying to offend you but many people complained about the call center boom in 2001, and now most of those people work there, from what i understand rhiley was only explaining about the need for change as to lead our city into a brighter future

[rhiley_08j]

See that's what I am talking about ADM, do you really believe that a strip joint creates all those problems. Have you actually met a dancer? The majority of them are not a bunch of crackhead whores, they are woman that are confident in their bodies and realize that, omg men and women, the same ones that spend billions of dollars a year on adult entertainment, will pay to watch them take off there clothes in a safe, controlled environment, and they can make more money doing it than most of us make doing our "regular" jobs. But why is it that when I bring up the issue using the word conservative, everyone thinks that I am talking about the adult entertainment trade. The word conservative refers more to one way of thinking whereas a liberal viewpoint is more open. That is what I mean. As for a second refinery, so what, the environment has gone down the tubes for years, face the facts that it isn't going to get much better, because we are all not going to come to a common goal on the environment. So rather than try to fight it let's make the most out of the situation and give people a chance to make an honest living in this city. And as for the "pipelines" that are associated with the LNG and the refineries, do people not realize the amount of pipelines and other utilities that are running underneath your behind everyday.

[babydoll101]

I know before I even start this thread that it is going to stir up some commotion, but in all honesty, this city is way to conservative for it's own good. Most of the population is afraid of change and when they see change coming they do whatever they can do try and stop it. Do people really need to wonder why most skilled tradesman leave to go out west. There is nothing here in this city. On a rainy day what can you possible do around here other than go to a movie or go bowling. Yipee that's only fun about the hundredth time you do it. I was in Moncton the other day, and no wonder the majority of business opportunities go there. Lots to do, things to suit every variety of people, and the fact that the actually want to modernize there and move into the future. Don't get me wrong I love Saint John's heritage and it's "charm" but let's face it the past is the past and the only way to create more opportunities in the city is to stop holding on to the past and move ahead. Let's start the ball rollin, let's here what others have to say.

My dad has been saying the exact same thing for years. Both my parents have lived here most of their lives. About 5 years ago they moved some other place to retire. Even the seniors are leaving. Go figure:confused:

[adm]

See that's what I am talking about ADM, do you really believe that a strip joint creates all those problems. Have you actually met a dancer?The majority of them are not a bunch of crackhead whores, they are woman that are confident in their bodies and realize that, omg men and women, the same ones that spend billions of dollars a year on adult entertainment, will pay to watch them take off there clothes in a safe, controlled environment, and they can make more money doing it than most of us make doing our "regular" jobs.

Yup - she was running down one of the south-end streets with an 18" butcher knife going after her pimp / boyfriend. Lucky she didn't get shot that night.....

Some of your points are valid, but don't be blind to what the industry is and who it attracts. You really should research before speculating. Sure, not all of them are crack addicts, but none of them are Rhodes Scholars either. Spend some time at the jail or a women's shelter.

I highly doubt setting up a few strip clubs will keep the masses from leaving town.

[icedragon]

Be nice to see more industry come here that is not controlled by the Irvings

[jdcb]

BRING ON THE RAIN!!!:biggrin:

I want to edit that to say "bring on the snow" so bad... must resist urge to abuse special powers...

[Mandi]

I thought this post was about entertainment. my bad.

[jdcb]

is going to bring a thousand high paying jobs

define high paying...

everything is relative...

[adm]

define high paying...

everything is relative...

Well, I know folks who work at the current one who make $50K, and folks who make $100K + :eek: .

So - more than Tim Horton's, less than a Judge? :rolleyes: You're right, everything's relative. That's a lot for here, but not nearly enough for Silicon Valley...:rofl:

[rhiley_08j]

ADM, I certainly was not suggesting to add more strip joints, that will bring an influx of people to the city, I was just making the comment that the majority of citizens in this city are too conservative for there own good, that they are afraid of change. I personally was not the one that brought up the topic of strip joints, but I find it funny that that is the way this forum has seemed to turn. I suppose you are also against developing the waterfront, which would include putting in a big, bad, casino.

[adm]

ADM, I certainly was not suggesting to add more strip joints, that will bring an influx of people to the city, I was just making the comment that the majority of citizens in this city are too conservative for there own good, that they are afraid of change. I personally was not the one that brought up the topic of strip joints, but I find it funny that that is the way this forum has seemed to turn. I suppose you are also against developing the waterfront, which would include putting in a big, bad, casino.

Now you're being presumptuous :cool: . Just because you started this post, I know you didn't start the strip-joint discussion. I'm just pointing out some obvious points and maybe helping folks see things from another point of view. Someone asked what's wrong with one and I just offered my own [humble] opinion.

I don't think it's the city that is too conservative, I think the City Manager needs a new job and maybe an additional influx of youth in the Council Chambers. They are not necessarily conservative in there, just stuck with blinders on and drowning in bureaucracy. A casino on the waterfront would be a great addition, especially with the cruise ships docking along there (have you ever come into the harbour by boat - it ain't pretty!), however if the city wants to save the race-track, I think it would be better served in the east end built into a racino. I can't see them approving two such establishments in the city.
[:rolleyes: Unless of course we could convince them to start racing the carriage tours up and down Prince William??]

[The_Dave]

Bring on the casino, strip joint, racetrack,, new refinery,LNG. Bring it all on. It will only help the city grow. What we do not need are more stores. I was out to Mcallister the other day, they can hardly do business with the stores they have there. No more strip malls either.

PS admins, I saw some swearing in this forum.

[rhiley_08j]

ADM, you certainly make a valid point, and yes I have entered the city 2 summers ago by barge sailing from Newfoundland, and you are right, compared to alot of other ports that I had sailed into, the Saint John harbour is quite barron, that's why I think developing the harbour is an excellent idea, and by putting a casino there would certainly bring up appearances. I just tend to try to look at the city from a developers standpoint, and I know that we are our own city, but if you look at for example Halifax and there harbour, it is booming, and I think alot of it has to do with the way it's waterfront is presented.

[Mandi]

I'm all for the casino, and just about anything that would help to develope the city. I don't necessarily think strip clubs would develop anything, but it's a source of entertainment, that to me is no more harmful than going to a bar. To say that it's related to drug use is ridiculous.
As for entertainment though, aparently there's a chineese karaoke bar newly established on Germain. I'm going to check it out on Saturday. Sounds like some fun.
It would also be nice to have things like go cars here, they're so much fun!
I would really really love to see this city grow and become more sucessful. As it stands I'll likely be leaving here in around 5 years, which is sad, because I love the maritimes.
I think it's possible to grow, and still perserve what makes us us.

[seadog2006]

I don't care if another strip club opens, although it seems to gain a lot of attention from our civic leaders like Michelle Hooton. Even in a city full of unsightly buildings and a 25-30% poverty rate, they seem to feel that shutting down strip clubs should top their priorities. If I was mayor my first priority would be to bring in a wrecking ball, buy-out, and tear down every building in the Union Street-Prince Edward St area, and sell the land back to developers. That whole area is an embarrassment to the city's uptown and extremely disgusting. We need tougher laws against unsightly premises if you want to attract developers.