Pay Raise

[donteatrawpotatoes]

I didn't know they made that much.

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/front/article/282306


that's a pretty decent chunk of coin right there.

[sarahnb]

Yup. It would buy a lot of textbooks that our school is lacking and won't be purchasing due to a budget cut.
then again, they need to be able to purchase top of the line pillows and whatever else they need so they can sleep at night. It must be hard knowing they are playing games with the futures of the children in the province.

[donteatrawpotatoes]

Yup. It would buy a lot of textbooks that our school is lacking and won't be purchasing due to a budget cut.
then again, they need to be able to purchase top of the line pillows and whatever else they need so they can sleep at night. It must be hard knowing they are playing games with the futures of the children in the province.

:( That's not including all the things they are able to write off and business trips. My best friend's mother was a very famous political leader. Everyone in New Brunswick knew her name for sure. (maybe -slight exaggeration-) But some of the 'perks' wow. Almost made me want to get into government.

[inuit]

Now you know why they campaign so hard to get it. Once they are there, you don't hear from them again till next election. Good job, real good pay.

My M.L.A. came to my door begging for my vote, I agreed. He won, then when I went to his office twice and left msgs for him to call me, guess what, never heard a word from him to this day.

He'll definately not get my vote again nor anybody I can convince to not vote for him.

Thank you very much Stewart J.

Some peoople in this province live on 5 to 6 thousand dollars a year. Like to see one of the M.L.A.'s try that for a single year.

[orange]

$85k for a job like that isn't a huge amount.

Those are important jobs, so they need to pay a good salary to attract high calibre people. If someone's able to make $100k per year (which I think many lawyers and others do make), and MLA salaries were only $50k, many people would not bother even if they were 100% altruistic (which they're obviously not, but that's another rant :)). The job needs to pay a good amount in order to attract talented people... although obviously, that's not successful all the time even now :p But lower salaries would worsen the issue.

The job also involves putting up with people constantly complaining to the MLA and often being publicly insulted, so it needs compensation for dealing with headaches like that too

I always find it funny though, that people have no problem paying through the nose at sporting events and movies, so that athletes and actors can make millions of dollars per year.

And yet they complain about paying decent salaries to people who make important decisions for the economy and society. $85k for representing about 15-20 thousand people... that's like $5 per year per constituent. Wow, so much :rolleyes: A lot of people seem to waste that much money on coffee each week...

If the job only paid $50k, you would get dumber politicians, and they would make (more) bad decisions that would cost us all a lot more. They're bad enough already, and lower salaries would attract less talented/qualified/etc. candidates and make things worse.


Just thought I would add, to show I know the value of a buck: I barely ever drink coffee, and have only gone to a movie at a theatre twice in the past decade :p

[Crystalbeach]

Orange...you could have added that they are also on call 24/7

[rhiley_08j]

I agree with the raise, it works out they are only getting a couple thousand more a year... and now they will have to pay taxes on all their income; which they should have all along as far as I am concerned. No one gives me or any other hardworking citizen a $23000 tax break.

[sanstu]

Let me see, $85,0000.00 per year plus all expenses, assistants provided, no post secondary education required, extra perks including a car, excellent benefits including a pension second to none. No experience necessary.

Great work if you can get it!

[rhiley_08j]

What does everyone think would be a fair trade off for representing our country or province?

[donteatrawpotatoes]

What does everyone think would be a fair trade off for representing our country or province?

Less of an 'allowance' for other things IE: completely unnecessary business expenses.
I'm not bothered by their salary, but the fringe benefits kind of get to me. You'd be surprised the things they can get/write off.

[seashanty]

OK OK, I'll do it for 50k but thats my final offer :)

[rhiley_08j]

Less of an 'allowance' for other things IE: completely unnecessary business expenses.
I'm not bothered by their salary, but the fringe benefits kind of get to me. You'd be surprised the things they can get/write off.


The $23,000 they were allowed to write-off as tax free surprised me. I wish I could do the same.

[sarahnb]

They get paid an awful lot for people who don't read their mail, answer their mail, emails or phone calls. What is it that they do?

[donteatrawpotatoes]

The $23,000 they were allowed to write-off as tax free surprised me. I wish I could do the same.

Don't we all? :rofl:

[orange]

Let me see, $85,0000.00 per year plus all expenses, assistants provided, no post secondary education required, extra perks including a car, excellent benefits including a pension second to none. No experience necessary.

Great work if you can get it!

The general public shouldn't be so stupid as to elect someone who lacks ability and talent... and normally we don't. Most politicians do have a lot of ability, and I have to admit that even politicians whose views I hate have ability.

But I think the problem is that voters don't truly want the right kind of ability (as a primary concern anyway). A lot of politicians are kind of stupid when it comes to understanding the underlying "social/economic science" aspects of issues... but unfortunately, that's not what voters value the most. Voters mainly want to have their hands held and be made to "feel good" through BS'ing abilities and communication skills.

Look at the US... people said in 2000 and 2004 "Oh yeah, George Bush, he's the kind of guy you can have a beer with... Al Gore and John Kerry are too stiff and nerdy". Yeah, that turned out real well :p

But that's ability nonetheless, and it's what voters mainly want... and still, most politicians do have knowledge about the issues since it's what voters secondarily want. And even with Bush, he seems stupid as a politician, even though he's still more knowledgeable about the issues than the average person. But he comes off as stupid because the job is so tough.

MLAs are obviously no presidents, but they still have have important and hard jobs, so I think $85k is fair. When even the Canadian Taxpayers Federation - which criticizes government for almost anything - considers a government policy reasonable, then you know it's very very reasonable :p

[orange]

Less of an 'allowance' for other things IE: completely unnecessary business expenses.
I'm not bothered by their salary, but the fringe benefits kind of get to me. You'd be surprised the things they can get/write off.

Things like what? I think that's just a myth...

Government employees/politicians have very stringent rules about what they can write-off, and they're under a lot of scrutiny for their expenses. I don't know if it's the case at the provincial level, but at the federal level, all expenses for politicians and senior bureaucrats are published online for anyone to see.

In contrast, business people can write off way too much... luxury box at a hockey game? Write it off :p Expensive dinner? Write it off :p They still have to pay part of it, but the expenses reduce their taxable income by a lot.

And politicians do have a very large amount of expenses... they do a lot of travel and a lot of work, because they have to meet with so many constituents and represent so many people. The work they do may end up going nowhere, because one party will push for one issue and another party will oppose it (so inevitably, one of those politician's work gets defeated)... but they still have to do the work and be on call 24/7.

[FutureChief88]

Let me see, $85,0000.00 per year plus all expenses, assistants provided, no post secondary education required, extra perks including a car, excellent benefits including a pension second to none. No experience necessary.

Great work if you can get it!

EXACTLY..

They get paid an awful lot for people who don't read their mail, answer their mail, emails or phone calls. What is it that they do?


And yes Sarahnb.. Please if you find out let me know.. Cause i know on my 25,000 a year job.. if i forget to call a cust.. i get blasted..

So i cant imagine it..
Rhiley.. Why should i be paying these people 85,000 a year a PIECE.. and then have to fight for their representation? Or their help?

I find it a little much!

[donteatrawpotatoes]

Things like what? I think that's just a myth...

Government employees/politicians have very stringent rules about what they can write-off, and they're under a lot of scrutiny for their expenses. I don't know if it's the case at the provincial level, but at the federal level, all expenses for politicians and senior bureaucrats are published online for anyone to see.

In contrast, business people can write off way too much... luxury box at a hockey game? Write it off :p Expensive dinner? Write it off :p They still have to pay part of it, but the expenses reduce their taxable income by a lot.

And politicians do have a very large amount of expenses... they do a lot of travel and a lot of work, because they have to meet with so many constituents and represent so many people. The work they do may end up going nowhere, because one party will push for one issue and another party will oppose it (so inevitably, one of those politician's work gets defeated)... but they still have to do the work and be on call 24/7.

The allowances for business trips. Far too extravagant. You don't need $2k for two weeks of food. I don't care where you go.

[orange]

The allowances for business trips. Far too extravagant. You don't need $2k for two weeks of food. I don't care where you go.

That's just something you're making up, or were incorrectly told by someone else.

At the federal level, I know bureaucrats get a pittance for daily expenses if they're travelling. They get a few dollars for a meal, no matter if they have to actually pay more than that (and cover the remainder out of their own pocket).

And that's fine. But it's funny compared to salespeople at businesses schmoozing with clients at $100 meals, and writing it off.

Prove that a politician spent $2k for food over 2 weeks... you can't, because it doesn't happen.

[donteatrawpotatoes]

That's just something you're making up, or were incorrectly told by someone else.

At the federal level, I know bureaucrats get a pittance for daily expenses if they're travelling. They get a few dollars for a meal, no matter if they have to actually pay more than that (and cover it out of their own pocket).

And that's fine. But it's funny compared to salespeople at businesses schmoozing with clients at $100 meals, and writing it off.

Prove that a politician spent $2k for food over 2 weeks... you can't, because it doesn't happen.


Ok, then I was incorrectly told by a politician. Who can you trust if not them? :rofl:
Or did I entirely fabricate it? yeah that's much more likely.

(And PS, I think people paying excesses of $100+ for meals and writing them off is just ridiculous. That needs to be amended.)

[orange]

Ok, then I was incorrectly told by a politician. Who can you trust if not them? :rofl:
Or did I entirely fabricate it? yeah that's much more likely.

(And PS, I think people paying excesses of $100+ for meals and writing them off is just ridiculous. That needs to be amended.)

People who don't know what they're talking about often do spread false information or believe in false rumours :rofl:

Even if a politician told you something, you may have misinterpreted it. Maybe it was $2000 to cover food for 20 staffers during a campaign run or something. Or $2000 to cover meals for the politician and 4 staffers during a trade mission to another country.

There are a lot of possibilities. But none of them involve a politician spending $2000 on food over 2 weeks out of the blue, as a standard daily practice all by themselves.

[donteatrawpotatoes]

People who don't know what they're talking about often do spread false information or believe in false rumours :rofl:

Even if a politician told you something, you may have misinterpreted it. Maybe it was $2000 to cover food for 50 staffers during a campaign run or something.

Sure. We'll leave it at sure. I'm not a stupid person, but perhaps naive. If I am told something in the form of "I have an allowance of $1900 for food for the trip" I will believe it. -shrug-.

[orange]

Sure. We'll leave it at sure. I'm not a stupid person, but perhaps naive. If I am told something in the form of "I have an allowance of $1900 for food for the trip" I will believe it. -shrug-.

That allowance probably would include covering meals for staffers who are on the trip with them.

I know how things work at the federal level, and a federal politician couldn't get away with that without getting into some "doodoo".

Provincial politicians are at a lower level than federal ones, so I doubt they could either.

[sanstu]

Does anyone know the name of the fishing lodge(owned by the government) that the politicians like to use to entertain at? Perk, Perk, Perk!

Orange, I don't know where you are getting your info., however several times per year all this info(re: expenses) is posted in the newspaper. This is public record.

A few dollars per day for meals, Geeze Louise, who are you trying to kid? (you must be a politician, if not you certainly missed your calling)

[donteatrawpotatoes]

That allowance probably would include covering meals for staffers who are on the trip with them.

I know how things work at the federal level, and a federal politician couldn't get away with that without getting into some "doodoo".

Provincial politicians are at a lower level than federal ones, so I doubt they could either.

This has certainly inspired me to learn more about government... I've looked online, and come up with nothing. I guess it's a trip to the library for me.

[orange]

This has certainly inspired me to learn more about government... I've looked online, and come up with nothing. I guess it's a trip to the library for me.

As mentioned, the feds publish all expenses for senior bureaucrats and politicians online :)

Here it is for Stephen Harper:
http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/di/year_list.asp?cat=1&dept=34&id=256&Language=E

And you can even see expenses for his entire office:
http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/di/department_list.asp?id=34&cat=1&lang=eng

I don't like Harper (although I think he's smart and cunning... but so are many villains :p), but even he wouldn't be audacious enough to spend $2000 for meals all for himself over 2 weeks.

[donteatrawpotatoes]

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/di/expense_detail.asp?id=4116&eid=1&cat=1&dept=34&client=256&year=2007&Language=E

One night ... holy. smokes.

And thank you. Not quite 1k a week, but it's still kind of upsetting. (the golf thing, wow, so necessary for the good of our country)

[orange]

Does anyone know the name of the fishing lodge(owned by the government) that the politicians like to use to entertain at? Perk, Perk, Perk!

Orange, I don't know where you are getting your info., however several times per year all this info(re: expenses) is posted in the newspaper. This is public record.

A few dollars per day for meals, Geeze Louise, who are you trying to kid? (you must be a politician, if not you certainly missed your calling)

If you're travelling on business, try getting a decent meal for $5 when you're limited by time and whatever is within a couple minutes walking distance. Most fast food combos are around $5 plus tax, so one would end up paying for the remainder out of pocket.

And no, I'm not a politician :p I care more about the social/economic underpinnings of an issue than about placating the public with PR spin :cool:

Also, I didn't know about the fishing lodge, but it sounds kinda dumb to me. But I'm of the view that if you want to talk business, do it in the board room, and not in a luxury box at a hockey game! (or a fishing lodge)

[orange]

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/di/expense_detail.asp?id=4116&eid=1&cat=1&dept=34&client=256&year=2007&Language=E

One night ... holy. smokes.

And thank you. Not quite 1k a week, but it's still kind of upsetting. (the golf thing, wow, so necessary for the good of our country)

I think with stuff like that, it often covers the PM and other staff... but the bill gets paid by the PM, so it ends up being listed under him. At the very least, I'm guessing his security guards, etc. are covered under that cost. Or I don't know, maybe they have to book a whole floor for security issues or something.

Also, most high-end hotels in Vancouver are like $300/night. And we can't really have the PM staying at The Days Inn :D (I like Journey's End myself :p Interestingly, Barack Obama stays at The Hampton Inn on his campaign :) ...or does in some places anyway)

[sanstu]

Provincial expenses are also public record. I do believe this thread pertained to the provincial government, not federal.

Anyhow orange, I am sooooo..... glad you showed us that our tax dollars are being well spent by MP's and MLA's :rolleyes:. Yes they are very frugil with taxpayers money and there is no need for the public to question any spending. Glad ya cleared that up!lol

[inuit]

Still good money for a bunch of slimy, slick, brown noser types. I've personally know three M.L.A.'s before they became M.L.A.'s and they were the same way then. They remind me of used car salesmen trying to sell a piece of junk trying to make it sound like a lexus. They sell themselves the same way. Smarmmy bunch. Quick with a snake smile and handshake to get your vote, then they never remember you again.

As for 24/7 on call, as if . Try to actually get a hold of one of them. Receptionist, answering machine, voice mail, email. Matters little when they never return your call.

[mizunderstood]

All I can say is I wish Elsie Wayne was back here, she would kick some butt first, and take names later!

[inuit]

Yep, she sure was fiesty. I admired her style. Political parties aside, I also admired the way Martin stood up to the Americans and put them in their place unlike Harper. You almost need a pair of pliers to pull him out of the American's hiney before he smothers. Oh Canada