PDA

View Full Version : ADD/ADHD without treatment options


NikkiT
02-06-2008, 09:33 AM
I would like to hear from anyone without a family doctor and who was diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, or anyone who was diagnosed and had to deal with a family physician who did not believe in the disorder and refused to treat.

Thanks.

cuddlekitten
02-06-2008, 09:51 AM
My son was diagnosed with ADHD 5 years ago my Dr Tak through early intervention. She put him on medication and then for some reason she transferred to Halifax and all his info was transferred to his family doctor who did not believe in any child being on medication so for the past 2 years I have been fighting with her. I've had to call early intervention and have them fax her his info over and over again to get her to renew his meds. She has never weighed him nothing.....now, the meds are no longer working because he's outgrown them or he's not taking enough, I don't know but, I've gone to her several times and finally, just this past 2 weeks she has referred him to a specialist. I'm not sure what she put in the referral but, I know that it's not going to be good because she is opposed to him being on anything. He's having trouble in school. I meet with the teacher and the guidance councellor monthly. We have tried to come up with a plan to help him succeed but, it's not working. I hope that when we see the specialist he will help. I can tell you that early intervention was a life safer for me. When nobody would help they were there.

FutureChief88
02-07-2008, 03:56 PM
I have a very hard time with this "disease"
I dont believe in medically treating someone for a "disease" that cannot be diagnosed through testing. It is an assumption. My step brother Had it.. apparently. They put him on meds to help.. I believe they did.. but his mother wasnt much of a mother and he had been through alot (i am NOT saying this is you). He was just acting out. I believe that a child who has this problem could be solved with lots of love and attention..

Again, i just dont believe in a assumed diagnosis.

babydoll101
02-07-2008, 05:20 PM
...

watty
02-07-2008, 05:47 PM
FutureChief and BabyDoll,

The person posting here was looking for help, not to be run down or have their situation questioned. Who do you think you are??? Are you both doctors?? Do you have a child that difficulties focusing?? Have you been run ragged trying to help your child focus and do well in school?? Are you a physiologist??

My son HAS ADD. The last thing we wanted to do was to medicate him. It was a last resort having tried everything from diet to supplements. Oh, forgot to mention, love, affection, caring and attention. Believe me, there was no other option (other than maybe a private teacher...$$$$$$).

Let's compare something, you go to the outdoor/doctors office for an ear ache. Last time I checked, they only look at your ear and not run blood tests and ultrasounds to confirm it is an ear infection. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....it's a duck!!

You might want to learn to use your "power of posting" to help people instead of saying you disagree and proceed to denigrate a proven fact.

When people post saying they want help, they want help not this CRAP!!!

lizard_lover
02-07-2008, 06:07 PM
FutureChief and BabyDoll,

The person posting here was looking for help, not to be run down or have their situation questioned. Who do you think you are??? Are you both doctors?? Do you have a child that difficulties focusing?? Have you been run ragged trying to help your child focus and do well in school?? Are you a physiologist??

My son HAS ADD. The last thing we wanted to do was to medicate him. It was a last resort having tried everything from diet to supplements. Oh, forgot to mention, love, affection, caring and attention. Believe me, there was no other option (other than maybe a private teacher...$$$$$$).

Let's compare something, you go to the outdoor/doctors office for an ear ache. Last time I checked, they only look at your ear and not run blood tests and ultrasounds to confirm it is an ear infection. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....it's a duck!!

You might want to learn to use your "power of posting" to help people instead of saying you disagree and proceed to denigrate a proven fact.

When people post saying they want help, they want help not this CRAP!!!

I think this was QUITE uncalled for. Yeah, an ear infection gets blood tests and an ultra sound that PROVES the fact...ADD/ADHD are just an assumption. A way for the "higher ups" to use your kids as test dummies for pills that you have no idea what they really are just because they have trouble focusing. And for your son to "HAVE ADD", Who do you think you are? Are you a doctor? Are you a physiologist? I HIGHLY doubt any of those are what you do. You are just going by what those people tell you. Did you know that some professions actually get "commission" from some drug companies to administer their drugs?

For the one who posted asking for help, I am in no way putting you down or saying what you are doing is wrong, I am just stating that watty went way off the deep end for no reason and got all upset over someone just giving their opinions.

If you have a difficult doctor (which sucks because you cannot just go and get another one) then there usually is not a whole lot you can do other than go to the outdoor or whatnot, who probably cannot even help in your case.
A doctor tried to diagnose my little brother with ADHD, and my mother refused to pump him full of medications. He was always bored and causing ruckus in class. When we had a support worker sit in class with him, it turned out a lot of his problems with not being able to concentrate was because he was done his work before everyone else and got bored. When the teacher was asked to give him more work, she said it was not her job!! can you imagine? aanyways moving along...lol...
We created more work sheets and had them sent to school. thte school actually still uses them..but it actually helped him. he had more work, and because it was extra he did not have to complete it if he did not have the time. But it really helped. Turned 4 visits to the principals office a week down to one or so a month. Not only that, but he has yet to be kicked out of another school.

Try to find things that are able to keep him focused. It will take a lot of work, but I mean if you feel you have exhausted everything else...
If you would like the name of the social worker that was able to do WONDERS with my brother without medications, please PM me.

babydoll101
02-07-2008, 06:18 PM
:o

babydoll101
02-07-2008, 06:19 PM
NikkiT I really do hope you can find a way to communicate with your child and have your child act the way you want without any medication.

lise
02-07-2008, 06:23 PM
Well its easy for you to say,your little brother was able to finish his work in school.My son can't, and the school is not helping any by giving my son only 15 min a week.

lizard_lover
02-07-2008, 06:25 PM
lise, what do you mean by they only give your son 15 minutes a week? for what, work? because that sounds kinda weird...

lizard_lover
02-07-2008, 06:26 PM
and what do you mean by easy for me to say? my brother used to chase me around the house with knives and scissors trying to kill me because of it...dont say something like that unless you know what you are talking about.

sanstu
02-07-2008, 06:32 PM
This thread was asking for help with a child diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. Some of the comments made were uncalled for. Quite frankly I am offended by some of the comments.

Here is a better example, most mental illnesses' are not diagnosed by diagnostic testing, so does that mean there is no such thing as mental illness?

I agree with Watty on this one, when people are asking for help/info, if you don't have it to give, don't say anything.

FutureChief88
02-07-2008, 06:35 PM
FutureChief and BabyDoll,

The person posting here was looking for help, not to be run down or have their situation questioned. Who do you think you are??? Are you both doctors?? Do you have a child that difficulties focusing?? Have you been run ragged trying to help your child focus and do well in school?? Are you a physiologist??

My son HAS ADD. The last thing we wanted to do was to medicate him. It was a last resort having tried everything from diet to supplements. Oh, forgot to mention, love, affection, caring and attention. Believe me, there was no other option (other than maybe a private teacher...$$$$$$).

Let's compare something, you go to the outdoor/doctors office for an ear ache. Last time I checked, they only look at your ear and not run blood tests and ultrasounds to confirm it is an ear infection. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....it's a duck!!

You might want to learn to use your "power of posting" to help people instead of saying you disagree and proceed to denigrate a proven fact.

When people post saying they want help, they want help not this CRAP!!!

if you re-read my post i said.. I AM NOT SAYING THIS WAS YOU.. apparently you cant read.
I wasnt putting ANYONE down.. i am speaking of personal experience from living in a house with a child that had a "diagnosis" of adhd.

And the comparison of an ear infection to ADHD is absolutely abserd.
An ear infection is just that.. and ear INFECTION. Easily detectable through blood tests and VISION. ADHD is a non-diagnosable disease.. and imo an excuse to medicate over active children who live in a world of video games and obesity. Children are CHILDREN and when we were children.. "ADHD" wasnt so prominent.. probably cause we went outside and played.. and had discipline.,. and attention. I am not saying that there are not children out there that have a disorder.. i just have a hard time believe information about a "disease" that is un-diagnosable.

I refuse to allow a teacher or doctor for that matter tell me that my child must be on medication to act civilized. Because, this being an un-diagnosable disease.. I could come up with an excuse to put them on medication.. dont you think. I am sure with 2 hours of internet education i would be as knowledgable as a doctor.

I just dont understand HOW a person could put their child on medication for an unknown, guess-timated, problem.

I am not judging you.. or the many other parents that have their children on this medication.. I just personally cant understand it.

FutureChief88
02-07-2008, 06:36 PM
And as far as hijacking.. I am sorry because i thought her post said she wanted opinions.. but after re-reading it myself i guess i was wrong..

lise
02-07-2008, 06:41 PM
well,the school tells me that there is not enough funding for more help.My son does do the things your saying that your brother is doing. I do beleive a child could be help if the school would work more with kids in need. What I mean by 15min is that they can only sit with him for that long because they don't have time.

lizard_lover
02-07-2008, 06:57 PM
ok lise, i get what you said now lol it was just the way i read it.

I was also not trying to hijack the thread, I provided my opinion, and stated that i think that what watty said was absulutely absurd, and uncalled for.

I am with futurechief 150% on this one, but that does not make me think less of parents who have their kids on drugs for a "disorder" they have no real proof exists, but I do believe some children can be so bad the parents feel they have no other options, and in that state of being lost we as humans do things...

momtcl
02-16-2008, 06:50 PM
My son was diagnosed with ADD. His state is not as bad as most cases I hear of though. However, he was having a rough time in school at the beginning of the year with staying in his seat, not toughing the other children and not disrupting the rest of the class. At first his teacher wasn't a great help, but she eventually realised that she needed to do something so that she could teach her class without my son interupting her. They got a TA in the class and put him at the table next to her desk with the more advanced children. Also my son is 5, so sticker charts work well with him. they have A sticker chart at school, and we have one at home for him.

Hope this helps.

tred816
02-17-2008, 06:24 AM
This is a very touchy subject for most people. As a parent of a 12 year old boy with ADHD, I have 12 years of experience working with him as well as going to further my education as a human services counselor and working with children, many of whom had ADHD.
I have to agree with Watty on this one guys.
Too many people give their "opinions" when they are just that - "opinions", whereas they have no personal experience with having a child with ADHD.
I used to be told things like "oh, he just needs more attention" and he must be a genius and needs more stimulation....etc.
After years of trials and tribulations, medicating, not medicating, my personal experience is that I thank God for the chance to give my son a "somewhat" normal chance.
He still gets bullied and teased in school, he still struggles with tests and sitting still, but at least the medication gives him a fighting chance to get an education and make friends.
You treat a cold, you treat a flu, you treat ear infections and YES, some parents CHOSE to treat ADHD.
If it was unethical, we wouldn't do it. It's the lessor of two evils.
Yes, unfortunately, ADHD is misdiagnosed sometimes, but the disorder can be tested for. Brain waves on MRI images prove it. It's like saying dyslexia's a myth just because there's no blood test to prove it.

As for the initial request for this post, my son also went to Dr. Tak. Unfortunately, we also struggled to get help after she left.

My best suggestion is to go directly to Mental Health and set up an appointment. They can and will prescribe meds if they are needed and they will get your son the help he needs.

If you need a shoulder to cry on or just want to vent sometime....feel free to PM me. I've been there and it's hard being the parent of a child with ADHD, especially with so many misinformed people out there who judge us by ignorant standards.

lise
02-17-2008, 09:40 AM
Momtcl

I just want to let you know that you are lucky to have a TA for your son,My son is 7 and they can't give him that help in school all they give him is 15min a week,my son is so far behind it breaks my heart he is on medecation but that is still not enough,right now we are just waiting for mental health to get back to us.

momtcl
02-17-2008, 02:15 PM
Lise

Yes, we were verry lucky to have a TA for our son. But he is not quite out of the water yet. He may have to repeat kindergarten. He is haveing a hard time keeping his attention on his work. But were not pushing him too hard. We work on one thing at a time with him, for now its his attention span. I know that every child is different. I have 3 verry unique little boys, and ADD is only a small part of it.
I guess the only advice I can give you keep trying. I hope you find the help you need.

KRS
02-19-2008, 08:26 AM
Did you know Michael Jordan and Einstein had ADD/ADHD?

I always thought that was pretty neat.

I just wanted to mention something super controversial I read on a medical digest magazine I was reading when in California. This doctor from the area would cook up medical marijuana in a pan, and put them into capsules. They would then give these capsules to the child with the Hyperactivity or Distraction problems and let them go on there way. I thought that was a rather drastic approach to the situation

FutureChief88
02-20-2008, 12:21 PM
This is a very touchy subject for most people. As a parent of a 12 year old boy with ADHD, I have 12 years of experience working with him as well as going to further my education as a human services counselor and working with children, many of whom had ADHD.
I have to agree with Watty on this one guys.
Too many people give their "opinions" when they are just that - "opinions", whereas they have no personal experience with having a child with ADHD.
I used to be told things like "oh, he just needs more attention" and he must be a genius and needs more stimulation....etc.
After years of trials and tribulations, medicating, not medicating, my personal experience is that I thank God for the chance to give my son a "somewhat" normal chance.
He still gets bullied and teased in school, he still struggles with tests and sitting still, but at least the medication gives him a fighting chance to get an education and make friends.
You treat a cold, you treat a flu, you treat ear infections and YES, some parents CHOSE to treat ADHD.
If it was unethical, we wouldn't do it. It's the lessor of two evils.
Yes, unfortunately, ADHD is misdiagnosed sometimes, but the disorder can be tested for. Brain waves on MRI images prove it. It's like saying dyslexia's a myth just because there's no blood test to prove it.

As for the initial request for this post, my son also went to Dr. Tak. Unfortunately, we also struggled to get help after she left.

My best suggestion is to go directly to Mental Health and set up an appointment. They can and will prescribe meds if they are needed and they will get your son the help he needs.

If you need a shoulder to cry on or just want to vent sometime....feel free to PM me. I've been there and it's hard being the parent of a child with ADHD, especially with so many misinformed people out there who judge us by ignorant standards.

I just wanted to let YOU know.. That i lived with a child who had "ADHD" for years.. first hand experience.. and Yes .. it was Becasue he had an extreme lack of attention.
also my "ignorant standards" are based on reality and first hand experience.... Please dont assume i dont know what i am talking about just because you disagree with my opinion.


I agree LL.. I am in no way bashing or judging the parents that do decide to put their kid in medication.. To each his own. I was just stating my opinion.

lizard_lover
02-20-2008, 02:07 PM
futurechief I know...
Some people think that just because they birthed the child and live with it it makes them more "knowledgeable" than a person who has just lived with the child for just as long. Opinions arte opinions tred816, and I will state mine. There are so many disorders/diseases out there we really have no proof of anything anymore...well not so much no proof, but they could think it is ADD/ADHD when it could be something totally different, but doctors here dont go that far, they find the first thing that is close to the problem and say that is the issue. I think ADD/ADHD was something that was made up tagging hyperactive children to pump them full of drugs? Have a question for you tred, do you have any idea what all those medications will do to your child? long term effects?...before you start calling peoples standards on a topic "ignorant", maybe you should know where we are coming from.
Now, again, i am not putting down those parents who drug their kids, I am just saying there is no way in in heck I will ever medicate my child with that stuff.

FutureChief88
02-20-2008, 02:55 PM
Also, My confusion with this disorder is that MOST grow out of it around 17 or 18.. I find it funny that almost ALL kids "grow out" of this "disease". If it was an actual diease, wouldnt it be treated.. not just medicated. I know the medication that is out there for ADD/ADHD doesnt "treat" the condition itself... It helps to manage the situation. Now before everyone goes all off on all the diseases out there with no cure that envoke only managing of the situation.. This is true.. But why does this one in particular seem to go away once these people become adults?

I just dont believe in medication for an undiagnosable disease.. If you cant firgure out what causes it.. and test for it.. How can you provide medication for it? Its just very contradicting to me..

AGAIN.. Not BASHING anyone! Just think about the concept.. Just because it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. doesnt always mean its a duck.. It could be barney in a duck costume.. Sorry.. had to .. LOL

sanstu
02-20-2008, 04:30 PM
Contrary to what people may think, ADD/ADHD does not "go away", nor do children outgrow this condition. Some adults with ADD/ADHD, do in fact take medication, but more importantly they have developed coping skills necessary to be productive. Some adults have not learned these skills,; these adults have a difficult time holding a job, have problems in relationships and may have run-ins with the law.
This is a very real condition, and if left untreated can spin wildly out of control, with children suffering from depression and ODD. Parents of children that have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, need support from their community, friends and family. Working with these children can create a positive outlook in what sometimes is a very trying life.

FutureChief88
02-21-2008, 07:51 AM
Again Santsu, I have LIVED with a child who had ADHD for YEARS. Being my younger step brother. He has grown out of it. He no longer require medication and has not learned ANY coping skills. His life is no different now than it was then, aside from the fact that he is an adult now, holding a job and a girlfriend. He seems like a normal active adult with no problems at all. He was on this medication for 12 years!

anyway, I am not arguing the fact that some children are in different circumstances than my stepbrother. Some children probably do have it worse than he had it ( i dont know tho.. It was rough). I just cant justify putting a child on medication for a disease that cannot be proved through test results.

sanstu
02-21-2008, 08:28 AM
Anxiety disorders, depression, are but 2 that are not "proven" through "test results". Does that mean those conditions do not exist? Does that mean they should not be treated?

Diagnosing a child starts with a complete indepth history, and is normally conducted by a specialist. Medication is but one tool used to assist children with ADD/ADHD. I'm sure as a parent you would not want to see your child struggle with school work, not have friends, always in the office, always in trouble, not able to control impulses, never quite able to measure up/ succeed, and very unhappy. This is the life of an ADD kid, day in and day out.This takes a toll on the child and their perception of their own self worth. The spin-off is depression, anxiety disorders and ODD; just to name a few. The child's primary health care provider is in the best position to assist the family on the road to success for the child.

FutureChief88
02-21-2008, 08:41 AM
Depression and anxiety can be proven through testing. Serotonin Levels and Testing while experiencing an anxiety attack can prove or disprove these factors. I have had both done.

No, as a parent i would NOT want to see my child go through any of that.. But those things happen whether children have ADD/ADHD or not. I have seen it many times.. and even tho my step brother was On the medication to assist with this "condition", He still struggled with school, didnt have friends, got into trouble, completely disrespected his mother and family, and was not able to control his impulses. So no.. i dont believe medication assisted at all.. just gave him something else in his system. he was a bit more calm.. but nothing drastic, and i truely believe that if his mother had have spent less time screaming at him.. and more time being a helping hand.. He wouldnt have required this medication.

Again, I am not judging anyone... this is just my personal opinion based on personal experience. You choose to do what you want with your children. I just dont trust any doctor out there ..
Also, my step brother was diagnosed by his family practitioner.. Not a specialist.. and most children are. Not through entensive testing.. just a few questions..

Either Way, i respect the [parents that spend the time with their children necessary to aid in the help in these children, i just thought i would voice my opinion on a subject that really bothers me.

sanstu
02-21-2008, 09:11 AM
Serotonin Level testing can be an indicator, however it is not definitive testing. I have studied this extensively, and most diagnosic testing for depression and anxiety is done by history, not bloods. In some areas of the States diagnostic testing is available(cat. scans, being one) and is used in conjuction with history in order to diagnose ADD/ADHD in children.
What an ADD/ADHD child experiences on a daily basis is extreme problems, not your run of the mill having a bad day that every child goes through.

There is NO magic pill to fix ADD/ADHD. Meds, are used with behaviour modification (for lack of a better explaination) and a specialized plan which in some cases involves a SEP in school, and therapy.( this is in addition to a plan used by parents)

I guess the important thing is for parents to be aware of the choices out there and to to do right by their child. Everyone wants their child to be healthy and happy.

tred816
02-24-2008, 05:55 PM
well said sanstu.
As I mentioned, this is a very controversial topic.
When I say "ignorant" I'm not being insulting, I'm using the term in the difinive sense, meaning a lack of knowledge on the topic.
Perhaps some people do have "some" knowledge, but there are an awful lot of people out there who judge without the full story.
Living with it, watching a child you love suffer with it and trying your hardest to help that child overcome the battles associated with ADD/ADHD, you learn a lot about the disorder and what works best. Every child is different. Some parents will find meds work, some won't, most find a combination of meds and behaviour modification/charts and appropriate consequences, whether negative or positive really help, but for the most part, it's all a guessing game-at least at the start.
Just try to be open minded to the fact that it is a difficult choice to make, when deciding whether to medicate or not and that your opinions are hurtful to parents who are already struggling to do the best they can for their child.
There are harmful side effects to the meds, but there are also harmful effects to ignoring the issues and allowing these children to be bullied and treated badly, struggling in school etc....
No, a lot of the time, they do not outgrow the condition. There are many people out there with adult ADD/ADHD as well and they struggle too.
I'm not an advocate for medicating a child, I'm an advocate for parents and children of ADD/ADHD and would love to see people being less judgemental and more open minded to what will be best for these kids.
If you're not helping those parents or children, judging them is not your right. No matter what you'd do in the same situation. If there's no way you'd medicate your child, are you volunteering to help a child in that situation? Are you offering to help the parents? If you are - I applaud you. If not - think before you post something that will hurt those who are posting asking for help. Your opinions are just that...opinions. The person who started this link never asked for judgemental opinions....just suggestions on how to get his/her child help.

rhiley_08j
02-24-2008, 07:09 PM
Did you know Michael Jordan and Einstein had ADD/ADHD?

I always thought that was pretty neat.

I just wanted to mention something super controversial I read on a medical digest magazine I was reading when in California. This doctor from the area would cook up medical marijuana in a pan, and put them into capsules. They would then give these capsules to the child with the Hyperactivity or Distraction problems and let them go on there way. I thought that was a rather drastic approach to the situation


I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and it is funny that you brought the topic of marijuana up, because as an adult I can attest to the fact that if I want to truly give all my attention to a difficult mental task, if I smoke a joint it keeps my mind on track to concentrate. Others would disagree with this, but I can personally attest that it works for me.

sanstu
02-24-2008, 07:13 PM
I totally agree with what you are saying tred816. People do not get the full picture from the perspective of the child with ADD/ADHD. That is what they are missing. They see the inappropiate behaviour, but fail to make the connection that the child has a problem with impulse control. Meds can give the child that extra 10 seconds to process/control the impulse. This is not about the adults, this condition is about the child. This is not about changing the childs' personality, or breaking their spirit, this is about recognizing the challenges these children face on a daily basis.
When someone asks for help on a thread they are looking to be treated with understanding and respect.

FutureChief88
02-29-2008, 08:46 AM
I am sorry.. but i dont see where i was being judgemental or dis-respectful. I didnt insult or attack anyone.. just stating my personal opinions based on my situation. I had said a million times that i do NOT judge these parents.. and i also apologized for responding to the original post.. because i mis-read it.. but when people kept responding .. i felt i had to defend myself. I suppose this thread is no different from any other where people attack and stick their noses in where it doesnt belong. I just wanted to point out that i in no way judged or publically penalized anyone for putting their child on medication. It is your child.. You have to live with it and help the child deal.. whatever choice you decide to make is up to you.