Relocating NB housing residents.

[mizunderstood]

Anyone else hear about this? THey are moving all the housing residents from churchill blvd down. They have to be all moved out by Sept 09. Personally I think that it is a good idea because the houses are sooo run down, and falling apart, yet at the same time I wonder where the heck are they going to put everyone? Do you think that this big relocation is going to send rent prices up? What is everyone's thoughts, views, opinions on this?

[megz]

i dont think they should be touching the ones on the other side maclearn , taylor , patterson and etc! ill be furious! i just moved here and i love it here and i dont want to move into an appartment building i have a brand new washer and dryer that im not getting rid of ill flip out! and so will everyone else down here i think its horrible i wanted to stay down here until my school is done and i was going to finance a car too and if i move i wont be doing that!!!i think its ludacris

[Woofer]

the radio says it wont happen till 2010 so a few years to go.

[fuzzy]

hi my understanding is the people relocated will get the new places when rebuilt and I think they should rebuild all the buildings down maclaren taylor and surounding areas this neighborhood has been overlooked far to long.

[AreWeThereYetMom]

Paper says it's the Churchill Boulevard housing units - 88 families... which wouldn't affect the Taylor Ave - McLaren Blvd areas for now.

Telegraph-Journal Published Wednesday January 23rd, 2008
Appeared on page C4
SAINT JOHN - Eighty-eight homes in the Churchill Boulevard public housing complex are coming down to make way for a new revitalized neighbourhood accompanied by a long-term master plan for future development in the whole of Crescent Valley.
The homes, which were built in the early 1950s, are among the oldest public housing residences in the country.
The design, type of housing, even the budget are all wide open, says Social Development Minister Mary Schryer, who made the announcement Tuesday, along with Eugene McGinley, Minister of State for Housing and Seniors, and Saint John East MLA Roly MacIntyre.
"There's not a cost associated with the project right now," said Schryer.
The first thing that must happen, she said, is for residents and other stakeholders to figure out what they would like their new community to look like and represent.
A mixed-income project, higher density housing, even garden homes, are all possibilities, she said.
"It's an open book," she said. "The residents are number one."
The decision to demolish the homes was made when it was discovered it would cost $18 million to bring the homes up to standard. Necessary repairs include everything from roof and siding replacement to heating, plumbing and insulation improvements and upgrades to stairs, basements, washrooms and kitchens.
To simply replace the buildings as they are would cost about $11 million, Schryer said.
Schryer estimates it will take about 20 months to relocate residents into other subsidized homes so construction can take place; the province has hired a co-ordinator to work with residents to make sure their needs are met. The first moves will begin in late spring.
"All costs associated with the tenants' move will be picked up by the province," said McGinley, including moving insurance, damage deposits, and reconnection costs for cable, Internet, telephone and mailing address transfers. The province is working with landlords around the city to accommodate the tenants that will be displaced.
The process will not cost the tenants anything, McGinley said.
Some residents may move back to Church Boulevard, some may stay where they've relocated, depending on their wishes, said the ministers.

[hyjack]

see this is what bothers me with this i just had my building renovated and we were told we could not stay where we were at and guess what no one called me and said they would pay for my moving costs and reconnection fees why do these people get special treatment i mean yes i have a well paying job and i can manage the extra fundage but i mean people i know who are actually having a hard time don't get any help so why should some people and i say some people because i don't want to classify social assistant recipients because i have friends down there that have jobs and do quite well so i don't even want to get on the bashing topic im simply bashing the fact that if the province is gonna look after people then look after them as a collective not as a singled out group thats why there is bashing in the first place and if they don't want controversy why publish it instead have all caseworkers talk to there clients in private and inform them of whats gonna be happening in there future that way you don't get pissed off people like me thinking just because i do well for myself that sometimes id might like a hand up and not a hand out.

[beachnut]

Can u please add periods where they belong?

see this is what bothers me with this i just had my building renovated and we were told we could not stay where we were at and guess what no one called me and said they would pay for my moving costs and reconnection fees why do these people get special treatment i mean yes i have a well paying job and i can manage the extra fundage but i mean people i know who are actually having a hard time don't get any help so why should some people and i say some people because i don't want to classify social assistant recipients because i have friends down there that have jobs and do quite well so i don't even want to get on the bashing topic im simply bashing the fact that if the province is gonna look after people then look after them as a collective not as a singled out group thats why there is bashing in the first place and if they don't want controversy why publish it instead have all caseworkers talk to there clients in private and inform them of whats gonna be happening in there future that way you don't get pissed off people like me thinking just because i do well for myself that sometimes id might like a hand up and not a hand out.

[rhiley_08j]

Paper says it's the Churchill Boulevard housing units - 88 families... which wouldn't affect the Taylor Ave - McLaren Blvd areas for now.

Telegraph-Journal Published Wednesday January 23rd, 2008
Appeared on page C4
SAINT JOHN - Eighty-eight homes in the Churchill Boulevard public housing complex are coming down to make way for a new revitalized neighbourhood accompanied by a long-term master plan for future development in the whole of Crescent Valley.
The homes, which were built in the early 1950s, are among the oldest public housing residences in the country.
The design, type of housing, even the budget are all wide open, says Social Development Minister Mary Schryer, who made the announcement Tuesday, along with Eugene McGinley, Minister of State for Housing and Seniors, and Saint John East MLA Roly MacIntyre.
"There's not a cost associated with the project right now," said Schryer.
The first thing that must happen, she said, is for residents and other stakeholders to figure out what they would like their new community to look like and represent.
A mixed-income project, higher density housing, even garden homes, are all possibilities, she said.
"It's an open book," she said. "The residents are number one."
The decision to demolish the homes was made when it was discovered it would cost $18 million to bring the homes up to standard. Necessary repairs include everything from roof and siding replacement to heating, plumbing and insulation improvements and upgrades to stairs, basements, washrooms and kitchens.
To simply replace the buildings as they are would cost about $11 million, Schryer said.
Schryer estimates it will take about 20 months to relocate residents into other subsidized homes so construction can take place; the province has hired a co-ordinator to work with residents to make sure their needs are met. The first moves will begin in late spring.
"All costs associated with the tenants' move will be picked up by the province," said McGinley, including moving insurance, damage deposits, and reconnection costs for cable, Internet, telephone and mailing address transfers. The province is working with landlords around the city to accommodate the tenants that will be displaced.
The process will not cost the tenants anything, McGinley said.
Some residents may move back to Church Boulevard, some may stay where they've relocated, depending on their wishes, said the ministers.


Our hard earned tax paying dollars at work!!!

[sanstu]

I think it's a great project. It's too bad this project wasn't extended to include All of the housing units.

[FutureChief88]

Yes because thats what people need to motivate them to get off welfare.. or get better Jobs.
I have a friend who WORKS the system.. trust me. I am tired of watching it. She works but only claims a bit of it.. and also lies about other things to get a bigger cheque.. and living in housing.

Housing, like welfare, is a temporary solution.. Is should be taken as that.. Not brand new "client oriented" homes. Made for the people living in them. I am not saying that these people dont deserve to live in safe and secure homes.. because i completely agree with that.. But if renovations are going to made as per their specifications.. That, to me, is not right.

[ksbeckaa]

My house wasnt built to fit my needs...I just make do. So can everyone else.

[FutureChief88]

My house wasnt built to fit my needs...I just make do. So can everyone else.

My thoughts exactly..

If this is a matter of safety.. then that is different. But this is a matter of design.. i think its rediculous.

[redbridgelane]

i live in a 50+ year old home......can i have a new one too please??? oh wait a minute I have to go to work everyday to pay for mine...thats right... dont get me started on this topic!!!

[megz]

Yes because thats what people need to motivate them to get off welfare.. or get better Jobs.
I have a friend who WORKS the system.. trust me. I am tired of watching it. She works but only claims a bit of it.. and also lies about other things to get a bigger cheque.. and living in housing.

Housing, like welfare, is a temporary solution.. Is should be taken as that.. Not brand new "client oriented" homes. Made for the people living in them. I am not saying that these people dont deserve to live in safe and secure homes.. because i completely agree with that.. But if renovations are going to made as per their specifications.. That, to me, is not right.


Ummmm Excuse me .... You need to go read some books and do some research.... LOW INCOME HOUSING... DOES NOT MEAN... WELFARE... :thumbsdown: some people on this site really tick me off seriously

[megz]

And it begins with the BASHING on this site YET AGAIN... on whos better then who and omg lets pick on the poor welfare ppl!!!! then when ppl say something they delete the posts you people need to get over yourselves yeah ppl shouldnt live off welfare i totally agree but WHEN THERES NOTHING ELSE.. WHAT ARE U SUPPOSE TO DO? Leave them alone and stop nit picking go outside and enjoy the day stop bashing ppl on this site its getting OLD...

[ksbeckaa]

I just reread this, I think mayby what they mean as build to suit the needs is probbably something like making things wheelchair accessible, or making a unit suitable for someone with MS, or other disabilities that make entering and exiting or getting around quite hard.

[FutureChief88]

Ummmm Excuse me .... You need to go read some books and do some research.... LOW INCOME HOUSING... DOES NOT MEAN... WELFARE... :thumbsdown: some people on this site really tick me off seriously

As i SAID in my post.. get off WELFARE of get BETTER JOBS.. Maybe you should take your own advice and at least read what i wrote. I am not bashing people on welfare at all.. as i once needed it myself.. But case and point.. get off it.. or get a better job.. make room for the next guy that needs some help.

[megz]

As i SAID in my post.. get off WELFARE of get BETTER JOBS.. Maybe you should take your own advice and at least read what i wrote. I am not bashing people on welfare at all.. as i once needed it myself.. But case and point.. get off it.. or get a better job.. make room for the next guy that needs some help.




LIKE I SAID.... not everyone who lives in housing is on WELFARE! some ppl have JOBS! its based on your INCOME! HiNT ! L0W iNC0ME H0USING!

[megz]

As for better jobs maybe they CANT! theres NO jobs in this city to begin with !!

[FutureChief88]

I just reread this, I think mayby what they mean as build to suit the needs is probbably something like making things wheelchair accessible, or making a unit suitable for someone with MS, or other disabilities that make entering and exiting or getting around quite hard.

and that would be fine if it was limited to Wheelchair accessibility and such.. Its comments like this that bother me

"The design, type of housing, even the budget are all wide open"

I want to design a place for me and my children ..

i really dont care about this all that much.. I just thought i would voice my opinion.

[Smash]

And it begins with the BASHING on this site YET AGAIN... on whos better then who and omg lets pick on the poor welfare ppl!!!! then when ppl say something they delete the posts you people need to get over yourselves yeah ppl shouldnt live off welfare i totally agree but WHEN THERES NOTHING ELSE.. WHAT ARE U SUPPOSE TO DO? Leave them alone and stop nit picking go outside and enjoy the day stop bashing ppl on this site its getting OLD...




Nobody is welfare bashing....... I know for a fact that there are some (not all) people in that section of houses, that are on welfare, and have lived there for many many years. Three bedroom apartments to some who havent had any kids at home for years and years. I have heard a few of those people say that they didnt want to move into a smaller apartment because they wouldnt want to squeeze all of their stuff into a two bedroom or a one bedroom.... Try squeezing 3 or 4 kids into a 1 or two bedroom apartment....paying full rent thats not based on their income. Those who are living there and have other people that live with them (off the record). I would love to have someone come in and build me a new place because it would be safer and nicer for my family or to give me some extra room, but my god its not gonna happen. The only way thats gonna happen is if I work my ass off to make it happen. I agree, the place needs some kind of facelift etc.... but put some of that money to use getting people back to work, have some of the tenants help out with the work for wages and get them off the system and give them some work experience. Nobody is bashing those who need welfare or housing for a good reason. People are just getting sick and tired (me included) of working their asses off to make ends meet, when others can have everything handed to them. AGAIN, I am not talking about the people that need the system and use it for what its there for, its the people that are ABUSING the system, and have been allowed to for years and years. Please dont get soooo defensive, if you are not abusing the system, or never have, you are not being bashed!! People are voicing their opinions, not forcing them on you. I dont think I am better than people on welfare by any means, but I know damn right that I am better than those who are abusing it!!!

When they revamp the neighbourhood, they should do a complete review of each and every tenant to make sure that they still fall under the category of needing public housing. If the public wants to make sure that it is being used correctly, they have a right to know that.... we are the ones paying right??? The waiting list is unbelievably long, with other very needy people on it (including those who are the working poor) and some deserve to be there much more than others. Nobody has to agree with my opinion, but please dont put words in peoples mouths...

[Smash]

i live in a 50+ year old home......can i have a new one too please??? oh wait a minute I have to go to work everyday to pay for mine...thats right... dont get me started on this topic!!!


I agree completely.....

[FutureChief88]

Funny.. I have a Job.. and most everyone i know does. Again.. My point was that low income housing is meant as a temporary helping hand.. TEMPORARY..
Anyway that has nothing to do with this.. just bothers me that people that make less get more.. It is the middle class that suffers.. really.

[Smash]

True... middle class people are the ones that get punished.

Funny.. I have a Job.. and most everyone i know does. Again.. My point was that low income housing is meant as a temporary helping hand.. TEMPORARY..
Anyway that has nothing to do with this.. just bothers me that people that make less get more.. It is the middle class that suffers.. really.

[FutureChief88]

Nobody is welfare bashing....... I know for a fact that there are some (not all) people in that section of houses, that are on welfare, and have lived there for many many years. Three bedroom apartments to some who havent had any kids at home for years and years. I have heard a few of those people say that they didnt want to move into a smaller apartment because they wouldnt want to squeeze all of their stuff into a two bedroom or a one bedroom.... Try squeezing 3 or 4 kids into a 1 or two bedroom apartment....paying full rent thats not based on their income. Those who are living there and have other people that live with them (off the record). I would love to have someone come in and build me a new place because it would be safer and nicer for my family or to give me some extra room, but my god its not gonna happen. The only way thats gonna happen is if I work my ass off to make it happen. I agree, the place needs some kind of facelift etc.... but put some of that money to use getting people back to work, have some of the tenants help out with the work for wages and get them off the system and give them some work experience. Nobody is bashing those who need welfare or housing for a good reason. People are just getting sick and tired (me included) of working their asses off to make ends meet, when others can have everything handed to them. AGAIN, I am not talking about the people that need the system and use it for what its there for, its the people that are ABUSING the system, and have been allowed to for years and years. Please dont get soooo defensive, if you are not abusing the system, or never have, you are not being bashed!! People are voicing their opinions, not forcing them on you. I dont think I am better than people on welfare by any means, but I know damn right that I am better than those who are abusing it!!!

When they revamp the neighbourhood, they should do a complete review of each and every tenant to make sure that they still fall under the category of needing public housing. If the public wants to make sure that it is being used correctly, they have a right to know that.... we are the ones paying right??? The waiting list is unbelievably long, with other very needy people on it (including those who are the working poor) and some deserve to be there much more than others. Nobody has to agree with my opinion, but please dont put words in peoples mouths...

so agreed and very well said.

And those people out there trying to cram their kis in to these small apartments.. when they qualify for housing.. but cant get it cause Joe blow (whose kids have moved out ) has been on housing for 10 years.. Its just frustrating..

[KRS]

Plenty of jobs in this city. Check out the job bank. I am hiring two people right now..

[kaj27]

LIKE I SAID.... not everyone who lives in housing is on WELFARE! some ppl have JOBS! its based on your INCOME! HiNT ! L0W iNC0ME H0USING!

Some people even own the units.

Although I do agree it's time for an update. You could swear its a different town when you go from the Provincial Housing to the Federal Housing. I hope it all works out good for the residents though.

[inuit]

. I am not bashing anyone but if you say you can't then you can't. I too was once on welfare with 3 kids but I went to school got a trade got off welfare ,went on to uni. and so on. No family no support just me. If just once I had said I can't then I wouldn't have.

[redbridgelane]

am not bashing anyone but if you say you can't then you can't. I too was once on welfare with 3 kids but I went to school got a trade got off welfare ,went on to uni. and so on. No family no support just me. If just once I had said I can't then I wouldn't have. GOOD FINALLY A SUCCESS STORY!!! WELFARE WAS CREATED TO HELP PEOPLE "TEMPORARILY" UNTIL THEY GET BACK ON THEIR FEET..IT WAS NOT CREATED TO LIVE ON FOR THE REST OF THEIR NATURAL LIVES AND THEN PASSING IT ON TO THEIR KIDS AND SO ON AND SO ON.......

[mizunderstood]

Ok. I just checked this thread and I am kind of ticked off. This was not a Welfare bashing thread, nor a lets crap on people in housing thread. There is a need to have these buildings torn down. Honestly. I live in one of them and we have major issues. No water, broken pipes, rotted windows and floors, just to name a few things. Yes there needs to be better housing built for those of us that NEED it. Yes there are people that abuse it, I can give you a dozen examples, but that is not the point. The point is these buildings are not SAFE and NOT up to CODE. THe relocation will begin next month, and be completed by sept 2009. Rebuilding will begin in 2010. I don't plan on being in housing forever. Right now I just cannot afford to pay 700+ a month for an apartment for me and my 2 kids. I work FULL TIME and I make less than 900 a month. So for now, until I finish schooling, I am stuck here. You bet I would love to have a nicer, SAFER home for my kids. Unfortunatly I cannot afford a "nicer" place. I just worry that with the housing shortage saint john already has, and now this new relocation of everyone from housing, that is going to push the cost of rents through the roof for the "unfortunate" people that have to pay full rent. I wonder if there is going ot be something done to protect the rest of the renters in the city? Supply and demand. There is going to be a HUGE demand for apartments in this city, and they are in short SUPPLY, so therefore I worry about the rent prices.
The one thing that I was wondering about with this whole situation is why are they (the gov't) footing the bill for the moves? They will pay to have you packed, moved, unpacked, damage deposits, transfer fees, EVERYTHING.... That struck me as odd.....

[MichelleM]

Its not realy that odd..... they can't knock them down when you are still in them. If they didn't pay somepeople would not move and the whole timeline would be delayed.

[inuit]

Are there any empty units in the other buildings that will still be standing? Do you suppose they will put you in there or will you have to find your own accomadations. It would be a scary time.

[sanstu]

mizunderstood, the government is covering the moving costs due to the expense. It could cost anywhere between $700.00-$1000.00 to hire a moving company.

These units are considered "low income" housing, depending on income level, dependents ect, a tennant might be on IA, or be a low income earner. Either way, these tennants should be in housing that is safe and conforms to present day safety standards.

[Mommma]

I saw this on TV and the homes they showed you could put you hand through the clapboard siding to the inside and they were really run down. We live in Canada and it gets cold! Those homes are in very poor shape and very old. At the very least I believe everyone should have access to safe warm housing no matter what they pay for rent.I am fortunate that I have not needed to use the services of low income housing yet in my life but who knows what anyones future will be? I would rather see my tax dollars going to this project than lining the politicians pockets or to the provinces richest-as it does now or to less beneficial projects around the province.

[mizunderstood]

I saw this on TV and the homes they showed you could put you hand through the clapboard siding to the inside and they were really run down. We live in Canada and it gets cold! Those homes are in very poor shape and very old. At the very least I believe everyone should have access to safe warm housing no matter what they pay for rent.I am fortunate that I have not needed to use the services of low income housing yet in my life but who knows what anyones future will be? I would rather see my tax dollars going to this project than lining the politicians pockets or to the provinces richest-as it does now or to less beneficial projects around the province.

Very well put mommma!

[trinity]

Plenty of jobs in this city. Check out the job bank. I am hiring two people right now..

I hired two people myself last week, more than minimum wage, would have been full time, and they DID NOT SHOW UP. Ever. How rude, to accept the job at 5 pm one day and just never arrive the next morning. They really stuck it to me last weekend, left us totally hanging, understaffed, stressed, freaking. We were only offering part time guaranteed, but the 4 OTHER people I hired this week are looking at full time starting next week, sucks to be the ones who turned their nose up at the job, I told them it would quickly work into full time, even I didn't realize THIS quickly LOL.

But I digress. I agree that people deserve safe housing, but those places always look like crap because they don't properly maintain them. I too know stupid stories about the place, how one couple HUNG ON to their 3 bedroom apartment for about 10 YEARS after their youngest child got married and moved out. They should have been forcibly downsized to a 2 bedroom when their first child got married and moved out 15 years ago. There must have been people with young children crying for that apartment but they dredged up every excuse in the book why they needed to stay where they were, all because they were lazy and liked the extra space for the dogs, cats, etc.

[mizunderstood]

mizunderstood, the government is covering the moving costs due to the expense. It could cost anywhere between $700.00-$1000.00 to hire a moving company.

These units are considered "low income" housing, depending on income level, dependents ect, a tennant might be on IA, or be a low income earner. Either way, these tennants should be in housing that is safe and conforms to present day safety standards.

I understand the theory behind it, (paying to move people) BUT I mean honestly this is going to take close to 2 years to complete. You mean to tell me that NO ONE would be moving of their own free will in that time frame? You mean to tell me in 2 years people could not save up enough money to move within town? It does not cost a lot of money to move within town trust me I have moved 13 times in 12 months before and that includes across canada and back. lol... I could understand them funding the move for the ones that are being moved immediatly... but come on...
I guess my issue with this is I see sooo much wasteful spending. Moving people all over town, paying moving fees, hook ups, etc, then paying to move us all back once the renovations are complete? (If we chose to move back down to this area of course)
What about the people that choose to move themselves? Will they still be given the money? How are they going to pay all these things? Like the hook up, transfer fees of phone.cable, net, whatever will they send a check to the residents themselves or will they send it to the utility provider? My major issue is what is this going to do to the kids? I know for a fact that my kids do not adjust to changes very well.... Also the time off from work to move is going to kill me. I work 6 days a week. I will have to take time off to go look at places, pack, move, unpack, everything. There is a lot of great benefits to this plan, but I see so many other problems with it. One big problem I can think of is if they move CERTAIN people to nicer areas of town, they will NEVER get off their butts and get out of housing. Why bother if you have a great place to live, cheap rent, etc? What is the motivation? I know for me, I hate the north end, the area that I live in, and that is my motivation every day that I get out of bed to go to work, I just think about where I want to be in 2 years.
A definate up side I see to this move is that MAYBE they will get the "lifers" out of the system, and also get the single people or married people with no kids out of 4 bedroom apartments and make room for families with kids at home. I know of quite a few families that it is a single man or woman or a older married couple living in a 4 bedroom apartment simply because they were never forced to move once their kids grew up and moved out. That is a major issue that needs to be dealt with.
There are definate pros and cons to this situation, I do applaud the gov't for FINALLY doing something about these houses. Honestly I can't tell you the number of times I have had to have maintence come and fix an issue with my house.
As far as building to certain requests or specifications, that is not the case. Yes they are aksing residents what would be of benefit to the area, how would you think the buildings could be better designed, etc. But we are not getting the choice of dishwashers, saunas, pools, etc. The input they are looking for is more about accessability issues, and improving the area/image as a whole.

[mizunderstood]

I hired two people myself last week, more than minimum wage, would have been full time, and they DID NOT SHOW UP. Ever. How rude, to accept the job at 5 pm one day and just never arrive the next morning. They really stuck it to me last weekend, left us totally hanging, understaffed, stressed, freaking. We were only offering part time guaranteed, but the 4 OTHER people I hired this week are looking at full time starting next week, sucks to be the ones who turned their nose up at the job, I told them it would quickly work into full time, even I didn't realize THIS quickly LOL.

But I digress. I agree that people deserve safe housing, but those places always look like crap because they don't properly maintain them. I too know stupid stories about the place, how one couple HUNG ON to their 3 bedroom apartment for about 10 YEARS after their youngest child got married and moved out. They should have been forcibly downsized to a 2 bedroom when their first child got married and moved out 15 years ago. There must have been people with young children crying for that apartment but they dredged up every excuse in the book why they needed to stay where they were, all because they were lazy and liked the extra space for the dogs, cats, etc.


I agree Trinity, there are jobs here, lots of them, FOR PEOPLE THAT WANT TO WORK! Trust me. I would be willing to take any kind of job to keep a roof over my kids heads, and food in their bellies. Right now I am working full time, and my job consists of cooking, cleaning, and wiping people's azz. It is a mediocre job, with mediocre pay, but I do what I do because it is what needs to be done for my kids.
People that cry there are no jobs here, blah blah blah, they are just making excuses to not work. Sorry, there are jobs here for anyone, you just have to be willing to WORK. Dear lord, mcd's and any fast food place is always hiring, home care companies are in desperate need,grocery stores, cab companies, I can think of a dozen places off the top of my head that are hiring right now. People need to stop being so darned fussy. You do what you can do until you can do better. That's my motto. Right now I have a crummy job, but I am going to school to make something of myself and give my kids a better life. SOmetimes people think it is just easier to have things handed to them. Why work when I can get an assistance check, why look for a nicer place to live, when I can get away with paying dirt cheap rent, why go to school to get a better education when I can have things handed to me, or done for me. The maritimes have gotten very slack and lazy. We expect something for nothing.

[inuit]

I agree with mizunderstood. Iwent to school for years with 3 little kids and worked 1 or 2 part time jobs besides to keep a roof over our heads.My weekends were spent working not enjoying myself. We never had cable only 1 tv no game systems. These are the sacrifices to get better. I think government should do more to help people who are willing to work to better their lives to get an education and those who are truly disabled should get enough money to live on. All others should have a 5 year limit . Having children is no excuse to stay on welfare forever. What are they teaching their children?

[Smash]

I agree with mizunderstood. Iwent to school for years with 3 little kids and worked 1 or 2 part time jobs besides to keep a roof over our heads.My weekends were spent working not enjoying myself. We never had cable only 1 tv no game systems. These are the sacrifices to get better. I think government should do more to help people who are willing to work to better their lives to get an education and those who are truly disabled should get enough money to live on. All others should have a 5 year limit . Having children is no excuse to stay on welfare forever. What are they teaching their children?


Very well put inuit!!

[rhiley_08j]

I think it really is about time to fix up those buildings on Churchill, for safety as well as cosmetic. Think about it, the city is looking for outside investors, and driving down one of our major thoroughfares you see that, it is a sin. The only thing I worry about is that the government is going to invest all that money, I hope to God that the tenants begin to take pride in where they live after. I am not saying that all don't, but there are some children living around there that have never been taught to take pride in your home and where you live.

[ksbeckaa]

Moving is not that bad. We moved recently for 87$. A Budget rent a truck and my and my husbands labour.................

It wasnt fun thats for sure...but we did it

[mizunderstood]

I think it really is about time to fix up those buildings on Churchill, for safety as well as cosmetic. Think about it, the city is looking for outside investors, and driving down one of our major thoroughfares you see that, it is a sin. The only thing I worry about is that the government is going to invest all that money, I hope to God that the tenants begin to take pride in where they live after. I am not saying that all don't, but there are some children living around there that have never been taught to take pride in your home and where you live.

Another excellent point!

[fuzzy]

hey good idea we will get the single mother a nd her three little kids out there to move their own stuff only cost them $87 come on now !!!!!

[Mandi]

Great for these tenants... But I wish something would be done to make landlords more accountable. we ALL deserve a safe place to live.

[MichelleM]

From what I hear a the tenants are the ones that have caused a lot of the damage.

[ken533]

they are not doing the rebuilding of the buildings because of tenanat its because these blds are old been here for over fifty years need alot of repairs they are old dosent matter if people on are assiantce or not whatever their situations are still deserve a nice apartment something that is free of mould which is very unhealthy to live in

[shelby26]

I believe the project is long over due, honestly if u drive by any of those buildings down church hill blvd, it looks like a ghetto project! The people living down the rifle range deserve better living conditions, not only for them but our city deserves it too! years ago the town houses by sobeys were in the same shape look at the area now!Just because u r on welfare u dont need a lable and the whole city knows that area as the low income side of the city! I believe if u sepearte the housings units up it may make more sense! On the flip side of this discussion I agree with most people on the topic of peopleon assisance and abusing the system, no its not fair nor is it right!But come on its a cycle that our goverment needs to fix,perhaps by making assiance not so easily to enjoy, capping how long u can stay on it and doing more investigations on people who are working or having there partner work while they collect their check! Honestly i dont think they get enough in most cases to live, 720 dollars a month , when u have rent, hydro kids to feed and cloth? Then on the other hand a mother with no depends gets what maybe 300, no wonder there is so much crime ! I am not for a second saying social assisance is wrong but i believe u get what u put into life, meaning u want a nice house ,car maybe vacations of course u need to work hard for it(unless u win the lottery) otherwise if u are gonna settle for what is handed to u, dont complain about how bad u have it!!! Its so true middle class is always the people who suffer the most while, the rich get richer!! :o

[mizunderstood]

Again I will state THIS IS NOT WELFARE BASHING THREAD! It is about the relocation of housing residents and the impact on the city...

[mizunderstood]

i dont think they should be touching the ones on the other side maclearn , taylor , patterson and etc! ill be furious! i just moved here and i love it here and i dont want to move into an appartment building i have a brand new washer and dryer that im not getting rid of ill flip out! and so will everyone else down here i think its horrible i wanted to stay down here until my school is done and i was going to finance a car too and if i move i wont be doing that!!!i think its ludacris

This comment really bugged me and here is why. Here is a girl freaking out over something that 1) she doesn't know anything about, 2) she has a major sense of entitlement to be where she is and 3) Has just lucked into one of the biggest lotteries of her lifetime.(getting into housing)
Obviously she is not that "low income" if she can afford a brand new washer and dryer set, and finance a car, and go to school and everything else she rambles on about in her post. I live in housing. I do not drive a new car (mine is 8 years old and falling apart right now) my washer and dryer are both older than ME! I work 40 hrs a week to provide for my kids and myself, many days I don't eat just because I worry my kids will have enough. The last part of this vent of her's said that if she has to move she won't be able to finance a new car! What priorities does this girl seem to have? First of all get the info, know what you are arguing about, and stop down talking others on this site. If you are forced to move your rent will stay the same, so it is not going to put you in any worse financial situation than you already are in.
I am sick of people jumping on the welfare bashing bandwagon. Yes we realize there is a huge problem with our system as it is, but unfortunatly there are not enough caseworkers to go case by case, door to door to make sure that each and every person on assistance or in housing is being HONEST. They are trying to do the best they can, and unfortunatly there are always going to be "lifers" in the system. AS far as another comment you made stating that not everyone in housing is on assistance, yes that is true,but in a recent survey of the crescent valley area I believe it said that more than 60% of the residents in this area do not work OUTSIDE the home for income. What does that tell you?? There are more people on assistance in this one area than all over town! Hopefully when this move is done there will be a lot more people forced out of housing to make way for the ones that truly need it. I am getting sick and tired of seeing single people or married couples with no kids at home living in a 4 bedroom apartment for 30+ years. There is no need of that. Sorry, once your children are all out of the house, then you should be forced to downsize or find your own place. Just my opinion. But I think Megz needs to calm down, and stop being so darned touchy about situations like this. You jumped right down other people's throats without hearing anything they had to say. Get the facts, do your research, and look at everyone's opion with an open mind. please.

[ken533]

what impact is it gonna have on the city they need to build more afforable housing units fro even the working poor so they can have good aduaqate housing also so they can be proud to say this is my home

[kaj27]

they are not doing the rebuilding of the buildings because of tenanat its because these blds are old been here for over fifty years need alot of repairs they are old dosent matter if people on are assiantce or not whatever their situations are still deserve a nice apartment something that is free of mould which is very unhealthy to live in

Ding Ding!


These homes have very bad mold problems. They have dryers that vent indoors! That is beyond a health hazard.

[ken533]

dosent matter if kids are gone and lived here fro 30 years dosent mean we a rent entiletd to aduqate housing unless you wish to help pay our higer rent which is what it would be people are just jealous cause fro once low income and middle income people are finally getting something that is very much nedded here in saint john clean and adeqate housing so i say people that are complaining suck it up

[ken533]

dingding all dryers are vented out side have alook around at all houses and apartments

[kaj27]

dingding all dryers are vented out side have alook around at all houses and apartments

haha keep trying.

[MichelleM]

dosent matter if kids are gone and lived here fro 30 years dosent mean we a rent entiletd to aduqate housing unless you wish to help pay our higer rent which is what it would be people are just jealous cause fro once low income and middle income people are finally getting something that is very much nedded here in saint john clean and adeqate housing so i say people that are complaining suck it up
The way I see it is there is no need for somebody with no children to be in a 3 bedroom subsidized home. If you need to still be subsidized fine but it should be in a smaller place and give the larger one to the person who NEEDS the other bedrooms.
How does this help middle class???we are the ones paying for it.

[TrueLine]

dosent matter if kids are gone and lived here fro 30 years dosent mean we a rent entiletd to aduqate housing unless you wish to help pay our higer rent which is what it would be people are just jealous cause fro once low income and middle income people are finally getting something that is very much nedded here in saint john clean and adeqate housing so i say people that are complaining suck it up

People are already helping to pay your rent! Now you think you desreve more? Instead of telling others to suck it up, why don't you suck it up and help support yourself? The attitude of the people with thier hands out are what blows my mind. Do you think you're entitled to something? Get yer arse off the couch and find a job..The world is a much friendlier place when you contribute and pay your own freight!

[sanstu]

People are living in subsidized housing because they qualified for said housing. The reasons people qualified are as diverse as the people living in said housing. Physical and mental disabilites of client and or family member, lack of education, single parents, low income workers and the list goes on. Personally I do believe the empty nesters should be downsized.As with any system there is room for change and improvement. I also believe this is a huge step in the right direction for the children living in unsafe and unhealthy homes. Positive change is not a bad thing.

[MichelleM]

If they want to build new ones and knock the old ones down that is fine but I do not see why I should have to pay to subsidize somebody to have an apartment that is much bigger than NEEDED. I could use more space too maybe I could have my mortgage subsidized to get a bigger house. For somebody with no children to have 3 bedrooms subsidized is ridiculous this is not a need it is a want and if they want a bigger place than needed then why don't they pay for it and let us pay for somebody who needs it.

[mizunderstood]

Sanstu and MichelleM you both hit the nail on the head with your comments. Thank you!
As I said my issue is with the singles, or married couples that are holding up not a 2 bedroom, or even a 3 bedroom apartment. They are taking up 4 bedroom apartments!!! I mean come on here, something has to change when we all get moved out of here..... This is nuts. I know people with 4 kids plus 2 adults that are living in 2 or 3 bedroom apartments because THERE ARE NO 4 bedroms available. This is nuts. I really hope they fix this issue when they move everyone around. I have actually heard older couples that have lived in this area for 30+ years say I REFUSE to be put into a smaller apartment, I won't have room for all my stuff!!!! CAN U IMAGINE???? That needs to change.
I am glad that I have affordable housing right now, and beggers can't be choosers, but I mean come on, 30 years, 4 generations all living in one building??? (or on the same street...) Something needs to be done. SOON. I agree with some of the others that said there should be a time limit. BOTH on assistance, and in housing. I feel that 5 years is more than enough time to "get back on your feet" Barring any medical, mental or physical issue of course. WE need to get our system in gear like some other provinces in Canada already have.... In certain provinces there is a 3 year limit to be on IA. After that you need to PROVE that you are not able to work for medical, educational, or physical reasons. I see people that just sit around and spit out kids to avoid working, and that is not fair. I think this relocation is going to be a good thing in a lot of ways, yet I see soooo many issues with it as well.... I guess it is going to be a wait and see game now....

[mizunderstood]

what impact is it gonna have on the city they need to build more afforable housing units fro even the working poor so they can have good aduaqate housing also so they can be proud to say this is my home

I agree with this comment. Affordable housing for ALL not just the "lucky ones" that get into the housing units.
What do you think is going to happen when 88 families are pushed out of this area and forced to relocate... That is going to drive the cost of rent sky high for everyone else not under the housing assistance umbrella.

[rhiley_08j]

Holy cow, you know what guys, it's all about looking out for each other and helping those that are down. If your not down than help those around you get up.

[trinity]

If the moving of these families causes MY rent to go up due to increased demand, who will subsidize ME? I don't think it will be an issue as they don't seem to be planning to move everyone at once though. I think that they should renovate the area, make a few more larger apartments and implement and enforce strict rules about not being allowed to stay in 3 and 4 bedroom apartments once your children are grown up. They should also provide an enclosed play area for children, the few times I have had to drive through there in recent memory there are kids all over the place and they don't watch for cars. I think they SHOULD be making sure that the new places are set up for accessibility options as the population ages.

[Smash]

Very well put!!!!

This comment really bugged me and here is why. Here is a girl freaking out over something that 1) she doesn't know anything about, 2) she has a major sense of entitlement to be where she is and 3) Has just lucked into one of the biggest lotteries of her lifetime.(getting into housing)
Obviously she is not that "low income" if she can afford a brand new washer and dryer set, and finance a car, and go to school and everything else she rambles on about in her post. I live in housing. I do not drive a new car (mine is 8 years old and falling apart right now) my washer and dryer are both older than ME! I work 40 hrs a week to provide for my kids and myself, many days I don't eat just because I worry my kids will have enough. The last part of this vent of her's said that if she has to move she won't be able to finance a new car! What priorities does this girl seem to have? First of all get the info, know what you are arguing about, and stop down talking others on this site. If you are forced to move your rent will stay the same, so it is not going to put you in any worse financial situation than you already are in.
I am sick of people jumping on the welfare bashing bandwagon. Yes we realize there is a huge problem with our system as it is, but unfortunatly there are not enough caseworkers to go case by case, door to door to make sure that each and every person on assistance or in housing is being HONEST. They are trying to do the best they can, and unfortunatly there are always going to be "lifers" in the system. AS far as another comment you made stating that not everyone in housing is on assistance, yes that is true,but in a recent survey of the crescent valley area I believe it said that more than 60% of the residents in this area do not work OUTSIDE the home for income. What does that tell you?? There are more people on assistance in this one area than all over town! Hopefully when this move is done there will be a lot more people forced out of housing to make way for the ones that truly need it. I am getting sick and tired of seeing single people or married couples with no kids at home living in a 4 bedroom apartment for 30+ years. There is no need of that. Sorry, once your children are all out of the house, then you should be forced to downsize or find your own place. Just my opinion. But I think Megz needs to calm down, and stop being so darned touchy about situations like this. You jumped right down other people's throats without hearing anything they had to say. Get the facts, do your research, and look at everyone's opion with an open mind. please.

[Smash]

We are already helping to pay your rent!!!! Maybe you can start helping to pay for my mortgage!!!


dosent matter if kids are gone and lived here fro 30 years dosent mean we a rent entiletd to aduqate housing unless you wish to help pay our higer rent which is what it would be people are just jealous cause fro once low income and middle income people are finally getting something that is very much nedded here in saint john clean and adeqate housing so i say people that are complaining suck it up

[Smash]

This is the exact reason why people have attitudes about subsidized housing....


dosent matter if kids are gone and lived here fro 30 years dosent mean we a rent entiletd to aduqate housing unless you wish to help pay our higer rent which is what it would be people are just jealous cause fro once low income and middle income people are finally getting something that is very much nedded here in saint john clean and adeqate housing so i say people that are complaining suck it up

[fuzzy]

i understand how some people are feeeling,but however not everyone in the blvd's are playing the system.i myself live here, my paint is peeling off my walls ,and because i took my apt as is i can't get it painted.two of my bedrooms are always cold,while the other two are hot.plumbing problems are another topic.yes i have three children ,one with special needs .i do agree however that once your children are grown. get smaller place.i have tried getting housing to put fences up , but no is always the word .the playground down here needs to be fenced in.these places are old and do need work,i myself would pay my own moving cost if i was the one moving.also at times both me or my husband have worked,and are going to school to better ourselves.sometimes the way out is a long journey.

[ken533]

if i had my way i would be still working and not be living here i had heart surgery 5 years ago and not allowed back to work i worked for 25 years and no one is paying my rent but me its not our fault that they are doing this and we cannot say no to the move

[sanstu]

The issues surrounding poverty are huge and the causes are huge. As it currently stands IA is not designed to be a "hand up" so to speak, but a way of life for many. Lack of money, lack of medical benefits, and a lack of affordable childcare are all issues that need to be addressed. Saint John has the highest rate in Canada for single parent poverty. Affordable housing is but one way these families are helped . The issue of daycare spaces needs to be addressed, as most daycares currently have a waiting list of well over a year for infant spaces. Then we have the issue of child support. Perhaps some of these "baby daddies" could be a man, accept responsibility for their child/children, and contribuate towards their support! Everyone has a right to be able to obtain safe affordable housing. This project will go a long way to ensuring the children have a safe home that they can be proud of!

[MichelleM]

They are planning on covering all cost and are trying to give the people better safer homes. I do not see what the complaint is. Maybe some are worried that they will take a closer look at whether they still qualify and may not get to move back or that they will get the size that they should have not what they currently have.
all in all I think it is a good thing and maybe some of the people that really need it will get in and they will give people the size they need

[inuit]

Yes you are entitled to safe affordable housing if you need it. If you can not work due to mental or physical impairment. No problem you should get more money to be able to live with dignity.BUT!!! Having children is absolutely NO excuse to sit on your arse feeling entitled to If every single mother in this city sat home feeling entitled what a disaster that would cause. My mother raised us working cleaning buildings because she was illiterate and that's all she could do. We were raised dirt poor. We lived in a 4 room house that today would be called a shack.It never occured to her that she could get welfare, as she said I have 2 good hands I can work. Two of my siblings are mentally challenged. You make your own choices in life.

[FutureChief88]

The issues surrounding poverty are huge and the causes are huge. As it currently stands IA is not designed to be a "hand up" so to speak, but a way of life for many. Lack of money, lack of medical benefits, and a lack of affordable childcare are all issues that need to be addressed. Saint John has the highest rate in Canada for single parent poverty. Affordable housing is but one way these families are helped . The issue of daycare spaces needs to be addressed, as most daycares currently have a waiting list of well over a year for infant spaces. Then we have the issue of child support. Perhaps some of these "baby daddies" could be a man, accept responsibility for their child/children, and contribuate towards their support! Everyone has a right to be able to obtain safe affordable housing. This project will go a long way to ensuring the children have a safe home that they can be proud of!
Maybe some of the onus should be put back on the mothers as well. Its not fair to blame them "men" I know quite a few men who are fathering their children as single dads. If it is the case of the mother, maybe these women should start being a little more selective in the men they choose to sleep with unprotected. Just makes sense to me.

[ken533]

true line u ahve no right to judge peopel some people are on low income fro valid reason my husband and i both worked hard fro 25 years and now is healtj is very bad i stay home to take care of him besides if iwere to go back to work whos gonna pay for akll his medications he needs to live not all people tak advantage of the system sure some do but i think the people on here beter get facts striaght before bad mouthing people in housingso iam sure if ever comes aday u need assitance you would be where alot of are today so have some couresty for people

[FutureChief88]

Yes you are entitled to safe affordable housing if you need it. If you can not work due to mental or physical impairment. No problem you should get more money to be able to live with dignity.BUT!!! Having children is absolutely NO excuse to sit on your arse feeling entitled to dick s---. If every single mother in this city sat home feeling entitled what a disaster that would cause. My mother raised us working cleaning buildings because she was illiterate and that's all she could do. We were raised dirt poor. We lived in a 4 room house that today would be called a shack.It never occured to her that she could get welfare, as she said I have 2 good hands I can work. Two of my siblings are mentally challenged. You make your own choices in life.

Well done to your mother! Congrats are in order! :thumbsup:

[inuit]

I am not including working poor. Working people should get every break out there. These people are not trying to get something for nothing. They are doing their best to provide and I for one have no problem helping those who try to help themselves.

[inuit]

Thanks Futurechief. My mom was a remarkable woman. She raised 8 of us alone.

[beachnut]

if i had my way i would be still working and not be living here i had heart surgery 5 years ago and not allowed back to work i worked for 25 years and no one is paying my rent but me its not our fault that they are doing this and we cannot say no to the move

Oh poor you. You have to move for a while so they can make nice new apartments for you.. Shame on them for forcing that upon you.

And the city isn't renovating them so the ppl in housing can have nice new places to live. They are doing it because it's against the law for them to place ppl in homes that aren't up to code and they are now putting into action what they need to do.

[sanstu]

FutureChief88, all the shouda, coulda, woulda's, don't change the fact that there are a lot of children that are being raised in single parent homes that do not receive financial child support from the other parent! The majority of single parents are in fact women. So whether they are a man or a woman, they need to step up to the plate and pay child support!

[ken533]

some people that move might stay where they are at insted of comming back so this might open up some spots for the cry babies out there and yes i mean babies

[Smash]

Again, nobody is bashing people in housing.... they are bashing people that take advantage of housing and welfare. If you need it due to medical problems, thats fine. If you need a hand up temporarily, thats fine, but if you and you're husband are living in a 2/3/4 bedroom place, then you should be made to move. If not, thats great, you should stay where you are. Make room for the people that have kids that need it. My argument was that I heard a couple of people who live there say "I am not moving to a smaller apartment, because I wouldnt have anywhere to put my stuff". What about the people who have no extra room to put their kids..... let alone their stuff!!! The waiting list is so damn long that there has to be some weeding out done and there has to be some changes made. Nobody is judging you for living in housing.... they are judging for the remarks that you made that you have lived there for however many years, and that everyone is jealous of you.... come on. I am middle class and since this topic begin I never once wished that I could live in housing so that I could get my better housing. If you need and deserve it thats great, if you dont deserve or need it and are still living there, you are the one that has to look yourself in the mirror every morning and be proud of what youre doing. I also agree with the person that said that maybe some people (SOME) are getting nervous because they may not get back into something as big, or maybe not qualify at all after the move.... Health wise, I wish you and your husband the best. You guys do need and deserve housing that is suited to you.


true line u ahve no right to judge peopel some people are on low income fro valid reason my husband and i both worked hard fro 25 years and now is healtj is very bad i stay home to take care of him besides if iwere to go back to work whos gonna pay for akll his medications he needs to live not all people tak advantage of the system sure some do but i think the people on here beter get facts striaght before bad mouthing people in housingso iam sure if ever comes aday u need assitance you would be where alot of are today so have some couresty for people

[Smash]

She was definately a remarkable woman... and a saint! That was how my grandmother was too, not a single mom, but raised 13 kids without a complaint. They were dirt poor, but they made do with what they had. They both worked their asses off because they knew they were responsible for raising their own kids, not everyone else. Today, everyone seems to think that Internet and Cell phones are needs, not wants.


Thanks Futurechief. My mom was a remarkable woman. She raised 8 of us alone.

[FutureChief88]

FutureChief88, all the shouda, coulda, woulda's, don't change the fact that there are a lot of children that are being raised in single parent homes that do not receive financial child support from the other parent! The majority of single parents are in fact women. So whether they are a man or a woman, they need to step up to the plate and pay child support!

Ok santsu.. dont get all in a huff. I agree completely that no matter which parent the child does not live with, should pay child support.I guess my problem was just with the "baby daddy" Comment.

[FutureChief88]

Inuit.. Your Welcome.

[sanstu]

Again, nobody is bashing people in housing.... they are bashing people that take advantage of housing and welfare. If you need it due to medical problems, thats fine. If you need a hand up temporarily, thats fine, but if you and you're husband are living in a 2/3/4 bedroom place, then you should be made to move. If not, thats great, you should stay where you are. Make room for the people that have kids that need it. My argument was that I heard a couple of people who live there say "I am not moving to a smaller apartment, because I wouldnt have anywhere to put my stuff". What about the people who have no extra room to put their kids..... let alone their stuff!!! The waiting list is so damn long that there has to be some weeding out done and there has to be some changes made. Nobody is judging you for living in housing.... they are judging for the remarks that you made that you have lived there for however many years, and that everyone is jealous of you.... come on. I am middle class and since this topic begin I never once wished that I could live in housing so that I could get my better housing. If you need and deserve it thats great, if you dont deserve or need it and are still living there, you are the one that has to look yourself in the mirror every morning and be proud of what youre doing. I also agree with the person that said that maybe some people (SOME) are getting nervous because they may not get back into something as big, or maybe not qualify at all after the move.... Health wise, I wish you and your husband the best. You guys do need and deserve housing that is suited to you.

I agree with everything you you have said. As with any "system" there will be people that are less than honest, however everyone should not be painted with the same brush. People also have to understand there are several classes of "poverty". the ones that are low income/on IA that are fortunate enough to be able to obtain subsidized housing. The demand far outways the supply and many low income families are left in housing they cannot afford. Changes need to be made in this area!

[sanstu]

Ok santsu.. dont get all in a huff. I agree completely that no matter which parent the child does not live with, should pay child support.I guess my problem was just with the "baby daddy" Comment.

Not in a huff FC, just pointing out that this is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. :D

[inuit]

Really must be scary out there. I recently heard that because of all the work comming to Saint John in the next few years the housing prices has climbed dramatically. That means rent prices will climb too.One most often follows the other. If there is a shortage of decent apartments now it may get worse. Maybe they should build more affordable housing or at least be more picky about who gets into housing.

[FutureChief88]

Well aparently our housing market right now is off the wall.. Great for sellers.. but not for buyers

[dan j]

It's still a good time to buy. Interest rates are low and prices are still expected to go up. A year ago was a better time to buy but it's not too late.

[dan j]

Back on topic though, I agree with most of the things sanstu has said in this thread and think that it has more to do with just building better housing but also building a better community so that low-income people there can have a better standard of living overall in body, mind, and spirit and some believe that this will be able to help others along that long journey to getting themselves into a better spot.

I think the old argument about people who abuse the system is quite distracting from more important issues surrounding poverty.

[iluvmnm]

What I dont get is how the "system" will do anything for a 20 year old that has 4 kids and lives on welfare...someone who just keeps having babies to make more money...but yet someone like other people i know who work and want hep with childcare costs etc...Social services won't do a damn thing.
And what i'm wondering is how they found places to put everyone that will be re-located when the wait to get into housing is years lol.

[rhiley_08j]

Man oh man, people get awfully worked up on this subject. The way I look at it is, I am thankful that I don't need assistance, but if I did I know it's there. I pay my taxes, every week, some weeks my taxes alone amount to a family's welfare check. Yeah it can be a bit annoying, I really hate to look at that part of my paystub, but at the same time it gives me a sense of satisfaction to know that I just made it possible for a family to survive this month. I could care less if they get it because of medical conditions or whatever else. If a person needs it, than use it, and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, they want to look down on you and accuse you of abusing the system, than so be it. If you need it to get you a little further ahead, or you need it because you can't manage otherwise, or whatever the case may be, go ahead. The money will be there anyway, and if people are so concerned about thier money going to people that are low income, maybe they should direct their attention more to irresponsible government spending than to bringing down those that we should be helping. If my tax contribution helps a person to have a better life, than I have done my part.

[mizunderstood]

true line u ahve no right to judge peopel some people are on low income fro valid reason my husband and i both worked hard fro 25 years and now is healtj is very bad i stay home to take care of him besides if iwere to go back to work whos gonna pay for akll his medications he needs to live not all people tak advantage of the system sure some do but i think the people on here beter get facts striaght before bad mouthing people in housingso iam sure if ever comes aday u need assitance you would be where alot of are today so have some couresty for people

IN your case I would think that people don't have a problerm helping pay your way(whether it be through housing, assistance of some kind or whatever it is you need) There is a MEDICAL issue.
The second part of your post i think the people on here beter get facts striaght before bad mouthing people in housingso iam sure if ever comes aday u need assitance you would be where alot of are today so have some couresty for people really rubs me the wrong way and this is why. I believe I do have my facts straight.I have been on assitance 2 seperate times in my life. Once for 2 months, once for 3 months. I had to go through Heck and back to get the little bit they gave me. I know it is not easy to live on an assitance check, HENCE the reason that I work full time. I am a single mom to 2 kids under 4 years old. One being a high maintance child with autism. Yes I live in housing for now (until I am finished school in a year and half) Once I finish school I will be better able to provide for my family, and also help others out that are in the same situation that I am in now. I am not a "lifer" I am using the services that are available to help me be a better person. The issue that most of us have is with the "lifers" that are on assistance, or in housing for ever. They do not want better for themselves, or their children, they are happy to milk the system for everything they can get so that they don't have to be a responsible, upstanding citizen and do the right thing. My theory is if you can't afford to feed them, don't breed them. Now I don't mean breed as in animals do, I mean, if you are in financial hardship already with 1 or 2 kids, my god people don't add more kids to the situation to make things harder all around. THe problem is that it is very hard to get the lifers into a new mentality. I applaud the crescent valley community for wanting to make changes, and help people be proud of themselves, and their homes, etc, but honestly just building new places to live, and having bbq's in teh summer as a community is not going to change anything. Serious action needs to be taken, and I think this housing move is the first step in the right direction.Hopefully they will get everyone assigned to an apartment that fits their needs, not WHAT IS AVAILABLE. Get the lifers out of there. I mean come on you have been living in housing on assitance for 30 years????? That is not right, things like this are meant to be a hand up, not a hand out. People need to start taking responsibility for themselves, and stop expecting the gov't and tax payers to foot the bill for them for life. I have worked since I was 14 years old. I have paid a lot of money into the gov't programs (not just welfare but all the gov't programs) and right now I feel like that is why I paid it all those years (and still do, I work full time) To help me out in times of need. There is no reason for anyone to be unemployed in this city, except of course medical issues, mental or something similar. Any able bodied man, or woman should be working, but the mentality is why work if I Can get cheap rent, or a check, why work a couple more hrs a week to make a few extra dollars, it will just affect my rent, it's not worth it. And a lot of people plain just think they are too good to work certain jobs. I see people turning up their nose at fast food, call centers, homecare, a lot of different jobs. But if it came down to it and you were told, take the job because we are cutting your funding off, WWYD? People need to own up to their responsibilities, and go EARN a living, not live off the hard work and earnings of others.

[Smash]

Good job mizunderstood!!! Good luck with your schooling, I have no doubts that you are going to be successful.... I admire your determination!!! :)


IN your case I would think that people don't have a problerm helping pay your way(whether it be through housing, assistance of some kind or whatever it is you need) There is a MEDICAL issue.
The second part of your post really rubs me the wrong way and this is why. I believe I do have my facts straight.I have been on assitance 2 seperate times in my life. Once for 2 months, once for 3 months. I had to go through Heck and back to get the little bit they gave me. I know it is not easy to live on an assitance check, HENCE the reason that I work full time. I am a single mom to 2 kids under 4 years old. One being a high maintance child with autism. Yes I live in housing for now (until I am finished school in a year and half) Once I finish school I will be better able to provide for my family, and also help others out that are in the same situation that I am in now. I am not a "lifer" I am using the services that are available to help me be a better person. The issue that most of us have is with the "lifers" that are on assistance, or in housing for ever. They do not want better for themselves, or their children, they are happy to milk the system for everything they can get so that they don't have to be a responsible, upstanding citizen and do the right thing. My theory is if you can't afford to feed them, don't breed them. Now I don't mean breed as in animals do, I mean, if you are in financial hardship already with 1 or 2 kids, my god people don't add more kids to the situation to make things harder all around. THe problem is that it is very hard to get the lifers into a new mentality. I applaud the crescent valley community for wanting to make changes, and help people be proud of themselves, and their homes, etc, but honestly just building new places to live, and having bbq's in teh summer as a community is not going to change anything. Serious action needs to be taken, and I think this housing move is the first step in the right direction.Hopefully they will get everyone assigned to an apartment that fits their needs, not WHAT IS AVAILABLE. Get the lifers out of there. I mean come on you have been living in housing on assitance for 30 years????? That is not right, things like this are meant to be a hand up, not a hand out. People need to start taking responsibility for themselves, and stop expecting the gov't and tax payers to foot the bill for them for life. I have worked since I was 14 years old. I have paid a lot of money into the gov't programs (not just welfare but all the gov't programs) and right now I feel like that is why I paid it all those years (and still do, I work full time) To help me out in times of need. There is no reason for anyone to be unemployed in this city, except of course medical issues, mental or something similar. Any able bodied man, or woman should be working, but the mentality is why work if I Can get cheap rent, or a check, why work a couple more hrs a week to make a few extra dollars, it will just affect my rent, it's not worth it. And a lot of people plain just think they are too good to work certain jobs. I see people turning up their nose at fast food, call centers, homecare, a lot of different jobs. But if it came down to it and you were told, take the job because we are cutting your funding off, WWYD? People need to own up to their responsibilities, and go EARN a living, not live off the hard work and earnings of others.

[mizunderstood]

Thank you Smash! I appreciate that. I hope to set a good example for my kids. Nothing in life is free, you work for what you get, you get what you work for. Use the system to help you pull yourself up, but don't use them as a way to survive, and living on a monthly check or in a housing unit, it is merly surviving, it is not living. Just my opinion.
p.s. Anyone looking for work or claiming there is no work in this city, feel free to message me I can give ya the names of 10 places that are hiring right now. Especially the company I work for! lol....

[sanstu]

You certainly are an inspiration, not just to your children, but to others who have been touched by your story! Thanks for sharing. I know you'll make it!:thumbsup:

[ken533]

dint say we lived on assitance for 30 years weve live here for 25 my husband and always worked just noy high income people life cahnge and their situion if we didnt need afforable housing wouldnt be here ive paid my share of taxes in my time and done back breaking working so been ther done that

[Crystalbeach]

that I don't work there anymore!! OMG can you just imagine the whining and crying that will be going on....
the units involved will be on Churchill Blvd...just down from the Rifle Range units ...which they are having a hard time renting because of the low income housing units..

[MichelleM]

dint say we lived on assitance for 30 years weve live here for 25 my husband and always worked just noy high income people life cahnge and their situion if we didnt need afforable housing wouldnt be here ive paid my share of taxes in my time and done back breaking working so been ther done that
correct me if I am wrong but you did say that you are in a larger than NEEDED apartment

[sanstu]

I believe what the problem could be is that there are a limited amount of smaller units available. Therefore, when a client/tennant is approved for subsidized housing they may end up with an apartment that is larger than what the client requires. This is a problem within the system, not with the tennant.

[ken533]

michellem right now yea we are in a four bedrom but only becasue they ahvent found us a samller aptr which we put in for when my son moved out dont put people down that stay in these bigger units we ahave to have ceretain restictations with another apt caus of my husbanda health which is in my own bld i will be hapy when they move us to smaller place pepole shouldt judge pepole if u dont know their situation

[MichelleM]

michellem right now yea we are in a four bedrom but only becasue they ahvent found us a samller aptr which we put in for when my son moved out dont put people down that stay in these bigger units we ahave to have ceretain restictations with another apt caus of my husbanda health which is in my own bld i will be hapy when they move us to smaller place pepole shouldt judge pepole if u dont know their situation

I have no issue with you being on subsidized housing your husband has health problems but even with your son there that is still a 4 bedroom for 3 people?
I do not get how the system justifys this.Would a subsidized 4 bed cost not be equivalent to a 1 bedroom cost not subsidized but with less space.

[sanstu]

I have no issue with you being on subsidized housing your husband has health problems but even with your son there that is still a 4 bedroom for 3 people?
I do not get how the system justifys this.Would a subsidized 4 bed cost not be equivalent to a 1 bedroom cost not subsidized but with less space.

The problem is one of supply and demand. The demand is high and the supply is limited. How to fix this problem; subsidize a smaller apartment in a "regular" building. Free up these units for families in dire need of an affordable home. There needs to be an overhaul of this system to ensure tennants still not only qualify for the unit they are in , but qualify for a unit period. If a tennant has been in subsidized housing for 30yrs. at some point their circumstances may have changed. What qualified you 30 yrs. ago doesn't necessairly mean you would qualify today.

[sanstu]

michellem right now yea we are in a four bedrom but only becasue they ahvent found us a samller aptr which we put in for when my son moved out dont put people down that stay in these bigger units we ahave to have ceretain restictations with another apt caus of my husbanda health which is in my own bld i will be hapy when they move us to smaller place pepole shouldt judge pepole if u dont know their situation

I don't believe Michellem is judging you; she is questioning why you would be in a 4 bedroom unit. The attitude you appear to have is "oh well". I believe that is what most are finding a bit troublesome.

[ken533]

the reason we are in 4 bed is because when we first moved her this is wher housuing puy us so its not the tenants fault u go where housing put you so shouldnt knock pepole fro what they live in till you know why
all i know since this disscussion came up people are up in arms cause government decided to go ahead with this program and trust me these palces badly need it as far aspeople being able to come back here after they defin shuold screen people to make sure thye are in need of housing but i know we def are hopefully to a2 bedroom so any way thats all in this subject just saying shouldnt judge people you dont know

[rhiley_08j]

You could imagine it would be hard for someone that has lived in the same place for nearly 30 to give up their home, because that is exactly what you are asking them to do. I can only imagine the amount of memories that would be in a place after living there 30 years, it would be hard for anyone in that situation.

As for the system, yes obviously there are some problems. I know of one individual who lives in a 3 bedroom, in the blvd, and she is the only one there. She has asked to be transfered to a smaller unit, knowing there are families that are waiting, and she has been waiting nearly 7 years now.

[MichelleM]

My point was what would the cost of a 4 bedroom be anyways? would it not be similar to a 1 bed or 2 bed that is not subsidized? I mean you don't have as big a place but you are paying the same. ???????
When I think of subsidized housing I see it as temporary to get on your feet not a lifetime. that is why the waitlist is so long.

[Crystalbeach]

When the low income housing units that make up Crescent Valley were built the largest number of applicants on the waiting list required either three or four bedroom units...families were larger then.

Since that time the largest number of applicants on the waiting list, are generally speaking, single mothers with one or two children..

It became very difficult, in the past few years, to find families that were waiting that required those large apartments so people that are living in them are not taking away from anyone on the waiting list..if there is a larger family waiitng they are offered the unit first.

[Smash]

When the low income housing units that make up Crescent Valley were built the largest number of applicants on the waiting list required either three or four bedroom units...families were larger then.

Since that time the largest number of applicants on the waiting list, are generally speaking, single mothers with one or two children..

It became very difficult, in the past few years, to find families that were waiting that required those large apartments so people that are living in them are not taking away from anyone on the waiting list..if there is a larger family waiitng they are offered the unit first.

But if there arent any smaller units, what happens to the people that were in the larger unit if the person on the waiting list is offered it and wants it?

[Crystalbeach]

all the units in that particular project are either three or four bedroom..however there are two bedroom apartments in different locations in the city.

[rhiley_08j]

They won't kick you out unless they have another unit to put you into. I think that is what people are saying is the problem. There are people in larger units than need to be, but there is no smaller units available so they leave them where they are. Therefore there are 1 to 2 people living in 4 bedrooms when there are families in need of them.

[MichelleM]

but if you look at home much they would pay for a 4 bedroom could they not get out of subsidized housing completely and pay for there own smaller place???

[mizunderstood]

but if you look at home much they would pay for a 4 bedroom could they not get out of subsidized housing completely and pay for there own smaller place???

Sometimes it is the same price for a smaller unfunded apartment but usually the cost of rents on a 1 or 2 bedroom are just as high as bigger non funded apartments. I was looking online last nite and rooms to rent go for 100.00 a week! So 400 a month. In a lot of cases that is a lot more than some people pay in housing for a 4 bedroom. IT all depends on the situation. Sometimes it is cheaper, sometimes it is not.
Once again kenkim, no one has a problem with you and your husband living in a 4 bedroom for the meantime until you can get transfered to a smaller, and more practical place that suits your husbands health needs. The issue is with the ones that have lived there for 30 years, their kids have moved out 15 years before and have not even bothered to apply for a transfer.

[rosie.p]

do all you people want to know why most prefer housing is because it to hard to find any other decent place to live you look and look until you find a nice place you like then go look at the apartment you tell the landlord you will take it then he or she find out you are on income assistance then all of a sudden they forgot the place was rented and they are so sorry.
but you see it still vacant when you were told it was rented happens far to often. unless people here would like these people to live in buildings owned by slum landlords housing is their best choice they dont judge these people on where their income comes from they dont make them feel like ..it like other landlords.

[Crystalbeach]

The rents in low income housing are all the same..no matter what size unit you're in...it's 30% of your gross monthly income.

[MichelleM]

well that makes sense then. Why get a 1 or 2 bebdroom place that is not subsidized that would cost the same as your 4 bedroom when you can remain subsidized and have everybody else pay half the rent.

[Crystalbeach]

I'm not getting your point...

There are three types of Low Income Housing...

1... Public Housing which is owned by the Provincial Goverment (Family & Community Services aka NB Housing)..These units are located in the North End, Crown Street and West Side, Two Buildings east Roxbury Drive.

2......Rent Supplemented Housing...which is owned by individual landlords..these landlords enter into an agreement with NB Housing to rent apartments under this program...the government pays the full amount of rent to the landlord for these apartments...there is however, a ceiling as to the amount of rent a landlord can charge...for example they would not enter into an agreement with a landlord for a $1,000.00 a month apartment...and in most cases these are for two bedroom units because the need is greatest for this size apartment.

3.... Seniors Housing...there are buildings, north, west, Market Square and Brunswick Drive.

When a person applies for housing their application is scored on need & size.
and in every case they pay 30% of their gross monthly income for rent.

[countesscurling]

I thought low income housing was offered the same as welfare. It was meant as helping hand and temporary. Living in low income housing for 25 years is a way of life not a temporary situation. How nice that you've been able to have your rent subsidized for 25 years.

[rhiley_08j]

I thought low income housing was offered the same as welfare. It was meant as helping hand and temporary. Living in low income housing for 25 years is a way of life not a temporary situation. How nice that you've been able to have your rent subsidized for 25 years.


No it's more like a lottery ticket. lol:rofl:

[AreWeThereYetMom]

I noticed one of the buildings is now torn down that faced Churchill blvd.
Going to be very somber once they start removing more of them after relocating the tenants.

[mizunderstood]

There is 3 more scheduled to be torn down this month....

[AreWeThereYetMom]

Any updates on how some of the families are coping in getting relocated? It appears that more buildings were removed recently.

[bradorna]

And it begins with the BASHING on this site YET AGAIN... on whos better then who and omg lets pick on the poor welfare ppl!!!! then when ppl say something they delete the posts you people need to get over yourselves yeah ppl shouldnt live off welfare i totally agree but WHEN THERES NOTHING ELSE.. WHAT ARE U SUPPOSE TO DO? Leave them alone and stop nit picking go outside and enjoy the day stop bashing ppl on this site its getting OLD...

Well said megz:thumbsup:. If you people think they are getting more than they deserve you are wrong. Whoever said anyone, the poor or low income people are expected to live in a dump. You are labelling them which is totally uncalled for. Stop judging the ones that may be less fortunate than ourselves. Sure there are some that abuse the system but that by no means says they all do. If you feel they are being treated too good and are getting more than what you could ever afford then get fired or quit your job or let me see...get hurt and live with a destroyed back and go on disability. Then guess what you can then join the ranks of the so called "welfare people" and live in one of the brand new apartments. The rest of us will sit back and bash you for getting everything free, that we work so hard to get and how dare you also live off our tax dollars:eek:. JMO

[mizunderstood]

A lot of buildings have been torn down, and people seem to be adjusting well to the move. The issue the relocation office is running into is that people are REFUSING places. NOTHING is good enough for them.

[Chinna Dah]

Are they also tearing down the brown ones by the animal rescue legue?

[funnelface]

i lived on churchill blvd for 25 years with my mom in the row houses . the only thing that bothers me is what if they fix up all these houses for the people that live there and they get destroyed like these ones did .then they are back to square one .

[mizunderstood]

Are they also tearing down the brown ones by the animal rescue legue?

no.

[Geneva]

If you people think they are getting more than they deserve you are wrong. Whoever said anyone, the poor or low income people are expected to live in a dump. You are labelling them which is totally uncalled for. Stop judging the ones that may be less fortunate than ourselves. Sure there are some that abuse the system but that by no means says they all do.


BooHoo The middle class need to come down off their high horse and blame the people that truely deserve it. Our government. Yes people play the system. No that does not include everyone receiving assistance of some kind. Yes our taxes contribute to the cost of running the income assistance program. No not all of our taxes are used for this program. Safe affordable housing is a right for every human being. I work full time. I look at my pay stub on payday and am distressed at all my deductions, but it is the government that decides where this money is to be used. They decide that tax payers money is not being used to employ the appropriate amout of staff to run these programs effectively. The government decides not to use our tax dollars to ensure that programs such as IA and affordable housing is dispersed among those with a legitimate need, rather than turn a deaf ear to the many abusers out there. People play the system " because they can". Hypathetically.... if I were to walk up to anyone and said I will give you 7 hundred dollars every month no strings attached would you take it? Of course you would... no matter what income level you are in. Rich, middle class, working poor, or dirt poor. we all would take the money. does that make you a bad person? of course not because the word welfare is not attached to it. But it is still a hand out? Our government, those we elect. regardless if your middle class or not we chose these people to represent our own best intrests. So instead of blaming the real culprit we blame the group that is easiest to blamethe cheaters of the system. The government are the ones who mishandle our money. They offer no incentive to motivate the abusers to stop abusing. Other provinces initiated a work to live program that entitles you to recieve assistance if and only if you have earned it every month. Why not use some of our tax money to educate and hire the proper amount of staff to investigate regularly. Hey how about educate some of the people on assistance for these positions. Instead the people we have elected are using our tax dollars to build summer homes and renovate their mansions and writing it off as a business expense. Like I said people abuse the system because they can. Use the money to better our assisted programs and ensure that those who need it are the ones receiving it. Because I work full time and pay my taxes and bla bla bla does not give me the right to look down on someone on income assistance. It gives me a better understanding of how lucky I am to be able to work. To support my child, to drive the beat up junker I own. Does it make me better than someone else? No. I believe that all recipients should be catagorized under different programs according to the reason they qualify. A single mother of 1 or even 5, 6, or 7 kids if physically and mentally able to work should be expected to work. As long as childcare needs etc are subsidized as well. Even if it is 15 hours a week. Any little thing that a person can do to contribute to their own community should be enforced. But these are idealistic views. It will never happen unless we, the people get mad, get angry but don't ignore it. We need to force our government to listen and enforce it. As far as the housing on Churchill Blvd finally. It is about time they fixed up that area. Shame on NB housing to have allowed those building to deteriorate to such a degree that they are unsafe. It's sad that the powers that be have waited this long before realizing an essential part of survival (shelter)was being ignored. This will give NB housing the opportunity to rescreen the tenants upon movin to the new units for appropriate size and fit for each family. PLease don't get me wrong I get angry about those who cheat the system but they are just a minority to the amount of people with legitimate reasons. It discourages me when reading through this thread that each time a judgement is posted it does not specify " the cheaters not the ones that need it" We are better than that. Please fellow Saint Johners choose your words carefully. If you take the time to post your thoughts please be specific to whom your addressing.

[bradorna]

I'm with geneva 100%

[Blazingsun]

Wow! what a wonderful post geneva. I agree 100%. So well said and you are exactly right.
~BS-Mom~

[Geneva]

Thank you so very much

[redbridgelane]

I have been in more than one of these houses and have seen the mess that people live in and dont bother cleaning up!! They sit in a pile of dirty clothes with a sink full of dishes. Maybe if they took a little pride and cleaned their place up once in a awhile they woudlnt be so dumpy!!!

[trinity]

It's not even so much that- my cousin has lived in housing for a long time and her apartment is spotless. My big beef, other than people who occupy these places for 25 YEARS, is still that people whose children have long since grown up and moved out were/are still occupying 3 and 4 bedroom apartments. I don't find this acceptable. 1. There should be a time limit on occupancy. 2. You should have an apartment the size that you need, not the size you WANT. A married couple should have ONE bedroom, unless for medical reasons they can PROVE they need to sleep apart. One child= 2 bedrooms, not 3 or 4.

[dally]

I have been in more than one of these houses and have seen the mess that people live in and dont bother cleaning up!! They sit in a pile of dirty clothes with a sink full of dishes. Maybe if they took a little pride and cleaned their place up once in a awhile they woudlnt be so dumpy!!!


It's not just people on assistance or low income that have messy houses. I used to work for a private company that did house cleaning and let me tell you there are more high income bracket people that don't do a thing in their house. Full dish washer for a week, floors not swept at all, clothes everywhere, can't even clean the ring around their bath tub, and the reason "we're too busy". Bull their too lazy, it doesn't matter what the income bracket is or if they live in a rental or own a home. Some people are just slobs period.

[donteatrawpotatoes]

It's not even so much that- my cousin has lived in housing for a long time and her apartment is spotless. My big beef, other than people who occupy these places for 25 YEARS, is still that people whose children have long since grown up and moved out were/are still occupying 3 and 4 bedroom apartments. I don't find this acceptable. 1. There should be a time limit on occupancy. 2. You should have an apartment the size that you need, not the size you WANT. A married couple should have ONE bedroom, unless for medical reasons they can PROVE they need to sleep apart. One child= 2 bedrooms, not 3 or 4.

That I have to give a big ol' 'here here!' to.

[sanstu]

I have been in more than one of these houses and have seen the mess that people live in and dont bother cleaning up!! They sit in a pile of dirty clothes with a sink full of dishes. Maybe if they took a little pride and cleaned their place up once in a awhile they woudlnt be so dumpy!!!

Geeze red, even rich people can be slobs! the only difference is rich people can hire a cleaning company.

[ken533]

these people that are bad mouthing people about being in units of four bedroom have no right to bad mouth people on here when you dont know their persoanl stories people on here must not have alife when they worry so much about the tennants that are in housing so grow up people

[donteatrawpotatoes]

these people that are bad mouthing people about being in units of four bedroom have no right to bad mouth people on here when you dont know their persoanl stories people on here must not have alife when they worry so much about the tennants that are in housing so grow up people

Will do.


When did voicing an opinion turn into bad mouthing, I'm just curious.

[puppyluv]

I agree with Trinity. If you do not NEED a 4 bedroom, give it up for a smaller one..help those who may need it more than you do...and I am sure there are people.
I also agree, it doesn't matter what you live in, it doesn't dictate if it will be messy or not. It is THE PERSON/PEOPLE in it that make a difference..not geography.

[Perkawil]

What blows my mind is you drive down Mclaren or taylor ave or even somerset and you see brand new cars and crotchrockets and even harley's. Like come on if you can afford to lease a new car or buy a new bike move out of there and let the people that really need housing move in.

[Triple J]

HEY PERKY, not all of those in housing do not work alot do and pay a percentage of their gross income. So if they are working what say do you have over what they drive? I would rather see the working poor in there thaN people on welfare.. If people didn't have a check given to them every month plus their housing dirt cheap . then they would scramble alot quicker to get off of it!

[Perkawil]

HEY TRIPLE I am pretty sure did not say that I have say over what people drive BUT what I said was If you can afford a new car you should NOT be living in housing. If that is the case I will stop paying $800 a month rent and move there so I can afford to buy a new car.

[Triple J]

Go ahead its your perogative.

[mizunderstood]

I see both sides of this issue that you 2 are fighting over. I know people that are good people, work hard, live in housing ,AND drive nice/new cars. The only reasons being
1) it might have been a gift from a family member
2)They got a great deal on the car
3)They both work, and can afford a new car (still paying 30% of their income to rent)
4) They don't have an option. Maybe their old clunker finally died, maybe they had been saving a few dollars every month for 10 years to BUY this brand new car
OR
5) They are milking the system, and have a sugar daddy living with them (off the books)

Whatever the reason, we don't know each person's situation.
The issue people need to understand is that NO ONE, ANYWHERE NO MATTER YOUR FINANCES should be spending more than 30% of your income on housing costs. That is just a bad financial situation.
Again, my issue is the people that are living there ,25 years never having a job, sitting on welfare, never trying to do better for themselves or their children. When do we say enough is enough? And how do we teach these people that there IS better out there, but it is not in the form of a handout? And when do we say You get off your butt, support yourself, or were kicking out off/out?
Like I said in another post on this thread, the issue the relocation office is running into is people REFUSING new places that they are offered. SOME of these people expect to have the Taj Mahal given to them. SOME of them REFUSE to move unless they GET this, that and the other. When you are receiving public assistance (AND YES HOUSING IS ASSISTANCE) YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A CHOICE where you are being moved (unless it is for medical, or safety issues) You take what you get, be thankful they are even giving you a place to live, and suck it up.. BOO FREAKING HOO, this new place might not have a washer/dryer hookup! BOO HOO! Use the laundry room like EVERYONE ELSE. BOO HOO this new place only has 2 bedrooms, not 4. NEWS FLASH YOU DO NOT NEED A 4 Bedroom if you are a single person!!!!! Accept what they offer you, move on, and hopefully MAKE A LIFE for yourselves. DO I think that the people in housing should get 15 choices on where to be "relocated" HELL NO. Take what they are being good enough to offer you.
I say this coming from someone that WAS on welfare at one point (short period of time) AND I HAVE HAD to use public help to get on my feet. I lived in housing. When they came to me and offered me a place did I turn my nose up and say no, that is not good enough? NO I had to make adjustments, and sacrifices, but at least I have a roof over my head. Do you think I liked being moved into an apartment building with 2 kids under the age of 4? HECK NO. Do you think I liked having to fight to get a washer and dryer on my ONE day off a week?? HECK NO, but guess what? I do it because I am thankful that they found me a place to live that was safe for me and my kids.
And just for the record I no longer get any gov't assistance. I work FULL time plus. I appreciate everything that I have gotten while I was trying to get on my feet. I could not have managed without it. But that is what it is there for, to help you up when you are in trouble. NOT to make a life of.

[undertkr20]

I as a rule dont post my thoughts on this site, BUT megz as for your comment no jobs in this city you are dead wrong. Look around I see help wanted signs every place I go, also I know some one who also lives in that area and she like many others there are milking the system for all they can. Please megz take a look around the north end there are signs for work every where...........

[Lisa_morris]

Wow what a topic! I feel a need to give my voice on this subject. I currently live in housing off MacLaren Blvd and work 2 part time jobs and have three children. One of my jobs is in the community as the Neighborhood Assistant my job is to help the people that live in the area with the problems they face. Its a arguement that will go on forever, how do we get rid of poverty? Telling people "get off your butt" I just cant see working.
I recently got to speak to people from "Voices from the streets" I highly recommened going to a conference if they are speaking or even checking out there website. They have lived in the streets, been homeless, counted the sheets of toilet paper, times are tight. I know it feels like people are abusing it but they all have a story, everyone does. People dont wake up and say hey I want to live in housing and be on welfare my whole life so I will never get anywhere in life. I will never own a house or have any self worth. Its hard times and its not pretty. I had a dentist laugh when he looked at my teeth, I couldnt get anymore pulled because I wouldnt have been able to eat.
We all have our stories and I am trying to do it the right way and its hard. I work my ass off everyday just to live in housing. And yes it is a roof over my head but in the summer Im terrified of kids burning something and me not being able to get my kids out, Ive had to watch two swat teams evacuate people, snipper rifles pointed in windows. Its scary, Ive had drunks trying to get into my place, fear to going outside. A drunk fell on my daughter while she was blowing bubbles in the yard. One night I stayed up all night scared that the car next to my house was going to be set on fire. Ive watch people fight in the middle of the street, one time I thought someone had died right in front of my house. His body crumpled and fell. Ive never experience anything like that before. It ended up he had gotten knocked out but it was terrifying none the less.
Im working at the resource centre located on MacLaren Blvd and we are working on getting people the step they need. You become so dependant on the system and your neighbors that getting a job is scary what if you fail and you are homeless. I would rather be on welfare then be homeless. Ive been there and its not fun, scared someon is going to take your children, not enough money for activities for your kids, cant afford a car to get anywhere, and yes you could walk but with three children it isnt so easy. I try so hard to not look like Im poor when in reality I am. I cant afford my student loan, I have no idea how I can manage but I am trying and in the process of climbing out of poverty while not abusing the system I am also working on finding the flaws with welfare and poverty in general. Welfare isnt the only problem, something has to be done about poverty.

About the buildings being torn down. I completely agree with what they are doing, the buildings needed to be repaired and since the cost isnt that much difference from repairs or rebuilding. By the way if anyone has any ideas with what needs to be done there you can contact Avide, they are doing the research. So while the whole idea is open it is open so that people get what is needed. Maybe it will help with poverty and helping people getting out of it. I want to help make poverty history. Not only for myself but anyone who wants to come for the ride with me.
If people feel they are being treated wrong instead of demeaning others on isaintjohn try going to people who can help. We have MLA's, councilers, mayors, I just finished a workshop on how to make a change. I now have the tools I need to make a difference. Find out how and make your voice be heard. Thats is why there are so many changes in housing and the blvds we are learning to be heard and they are listening.

[mybooboo]

You want to see a room full of people abusing the system,go to bingo on Union street,or head to Crowes place on the weekend.I can personally go into either place and point out at least a dozen people at either place who are on I.A and who also go there every weekend!While my husband is working in Alberta to support our kids,pay high rent,we dont get to go out every weekend!

[sanstu]

You want to see a room full of people abusing the system,go to bingo on Union street,or head to Crowes place on the weekend.I can personally go into either place and point out at least a dozen people at either place who are on I.A and who also go there every weekend!While my husband is working in Alberta to support our kids,pay high rent,we dont get to go out every weekend!


And there's people that cheat on their income tax and take fancy vacations. Perhaps an entire thread could be devoted to them. I guess there isn't as much of a stigma attached to these cheats!:rolleyes:

[Lisa_morris]

I play radio bingo on Wednesday, I dont consider it abusing the system. I do go out when I get the chance but I dont think its wrong. Everyone needs to get out and do something and if they want to take $20 and go out so be it. Being on Income Assistance isnt jail, you are allowed out of the house. If it is so wrong why not start a petiton to get people on AI banned from having a life and going out to bars.

[puppyluv]

And there's people that cheat on their income tax and take fancy vacations. Perhaps an entire thread could be devoted to them. I guess there isn't as much of a stigma attached to these cheats!:rolleyes:

Sad but true....:(

[Mertyl01]

:mad: LIKE I SAID.... not everyone who lives in housing is on WELFARE! some ppl have JOBS! its based on your INCOME! HiNT ! L0W iNC0ME H0USING!

Ok...I'll put this better than Megz...either do something to get off of welfare if you don't NEED it, and if your LOW INCOME and can't afford to pay for your own housing like the rest of the city does...GET A BETTER JOB,DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, GET OFF OF WELFARE. I was on it myself as I went through community college, but I got off of it AS SOON AS I FINSHED!!! Most people(NOT ALL THOUGH) in that part of town are on welfare, are lifetime welfare reciepients and have no intentions of getting off their behinds and getting a job.Then they raise their kids to do this as well. I grew up myself not too far from there and all of my freinds were from there growing up, I witnessed this all the time. I knew TONNES of people down there, different families, they all were abusing the system, popping out kids just to up their government cheques and blowing it all on junk at the dollar store, pool hall, MacDonalds and liquor store. And now their kids are popping out more kids and you end up with the same family occupying about 5 or 6 different housing units down there because they were "born and raised on the Boulevard" and they act so proud of that fact. These people should be screened or something before being allowed to move back into these buildings, so the abusers of the system (aka "the LIFERS") will be forced to do something with their lives and see what it's like to be financially responsible for the children you have and pay a normal rent and normal bills like the rest of us. There should also be a time period that these people have before being reassessed on whether or not they should NEED low income housing.

[mizunderstood]

Very Well said Merty!

[bradorna]

Wow! by the way you people talk, the only people that are cheats and gov't money abusers are the ones on IA. Wake up and look around you. There are people cheating the go'vt every day. No one mentions how many people are on workers compensation, because they have hurt their back. Why is it always their back? Because that is the only part of your body that you can actually fake an injury and it cannot be detected necessarily. I know of two men personally that have done this as long as I have known them and they both had good jobs at the shipyard. Then there are people that fake injuries from vehicle accidents. Money is the root of all evil so it is very hard to say that every man/woman gets every penny they have by being 100% honest, especially in the higher income bracket. As they say there is no such thing as an honest rich man and if he is honest then he is not rich. One of the biggest welfare recipents in the world is residing right here in NB, only it has been given the fancy name of "Forgiveable Loan" or "Grant" from the gov't. I could go on about who is cheating who, but no one would want to read it all. No.... I am not saying that the ones on IA are correct in what they are doing but they are just a minority of the ones being dishonest and costing us taxpayers alot of money.

[inuit]

I am on long term workers comp with a back injury. Not all back injuries are undectable. I have the x-rays, M.R.I. and C.A.T. scans to support my claim. Fake back injuries are getting harder to claim because of ever increasing better medical imaginaging equptment that can detect false calims. Believe me when I say I've spent 9 years fighting tooth and nail with workers comp to get the stipend that I live on now. If only I could I would work. The livelyhood is much better.

You are right though. If people are able to live fairly well and not work, they will always do so. I remember growing up with parents who would have sooner we all starved to death than take a handout. They built a one room 24 x 24 foot shack and we all lived in that and slowly over the years built on to it and improved it till it was a real house. They never borrowed or owed a cent. Gave all of us a real strong sense of self worth and the knowledge that we were capable of doing for ourselves and that we were responsible to take care of our own.

But do you know what Bradorna, you are so right. I remember when the government was giving grants for fishermen to get into salmon farming. They gave millions and do you know what? The fishermen built minimansions out of the money first. They started salmon farms next. Now seems every year or so we hear about the poor salmon who have some new disease or lice so they again must be reimbursed. If you think I am lying, take a drive down around Beaver harbour or seeley's Cove or Back bay. When you see the minimansions you can pretty well guess what they do for a living and it's not old fashioned fishing.