Segregated schools?

[mizunderstood]

Did anyone else hear about this brilliant idea the gov't has come up with now? (insert sarcasim here)
Apparently they want to seperate whites and blacks in the school system in ontario becasue they feel that black students are falling behind?
http://www.thestar.com/article/274159

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/274299

Opinions? Does anyone agree that this might be a positive thing? What negitives do you see? Please keep this thread respectful.

[megz]

wow thats disgusting..... that makes me VERY freaking angry....

[megz]

thats flat out WRONG.. im moving to the states this country is just blah no comment

[FutureChief88]

Well that just brings me back to the colour of our skin.. I dont unsertand how humankind.. can decide someone is better/worse.. smarter/dumber.. whatever the case my be.. based on the colour of their skin. I would find it funny if they cold provide a report to say that because of this persons skin colour.. they are going to need more help.

Seems rediculous to me!

[megz]

yeah they need to quit it.. thats just wrong

[mizunderstood]

Going to play devil's advocate here... Could this be a good thing... IF they figure out why exactly are these black students suffering? What are they struggling on? Why? If they had a school specifically geared towards those needs it might be concievable... What do u think?

Please don't get me wrong I don't like the idea of segregation, I thought that went out in the 50's.

[girdy]

Jeez guys, relax. They've indicated there is an issue with Black males falling behind, and by the time they're 16 the result is that too many drop out. Any of the statistics you can find out there indicate that Black males are more likely to be incarcerated, less likely to finish school, will earn less income, are more likely to die a violent death, than White males.

The dialogue is what it's about, trying to come up with a solution to the problem. The problem is well known. The solution to it isn't known.

If segregated schools are not the answer, what suggestions do you have?

[FutureChief88]

Maybe dealing with the individual child himself.. Not basing his needs on the colour of his skin.. would be a start..

[mizunderstood]

Thank you girdy

[mizunderstood]

Good point futurechef..But if it is a whole group of people what other things should they consider before this segregation idea?

[megz]

i hate the black dissing going on ... there is nothing that proves a black male is more stupid then a white male... personally i think black guys are smarter i would never ever date another white guy ever again ha i had to add that there but this whole thing is racist

[FutureChief88]

They could consider a school for children who are not as "developed" mentally.. based on test scores.. or whatever else they would base them on. I just hate the generalization people make on people because of their skin colour.. I am sure there are different statictics regarding people with white skin.. but that doesnt mean they should be seperated from black people..
I see what they are "trying" to do.. but i dont see that providing any solution.

[melissaanne]

what year are we?? man I coulda swore we have gone bounds and leaps since 1950 for J* sakes. ( I dont know the exact year, just taking a guess, so don't quote me and tell me I'm wrong pls!)

I seriously don't even understand *how* they can do this !! wouldn't this be considered racist????

[girdy]

I'm not crazy about the segregation idea, because I think having people of all races together builds relationships across racial bounds.

But I wonder, if part of the issue is that the Black kids don't have the role models and history figures taught to them as part of early education that would encourage them to think of education as a good thing. Black history, teaching about Black inventors, musicians, politicians, religion, origins. We received a big dose of European and Canadian history, but not African and Canadian history. Why would a Black kid care about European history or geography?

So perhaps a curriculum that would allow kids to get a portion of their study based on things that would be most interesting to their race could help. But that offered within an integrated school system.

I also think Black kids are smart, perhaps they need to be taught stuff they care about ...

[Cherry Pop]

Wow! Doesn't that go against human rights and go against everything this country is made up of. I think the whole thing is kind of sick and honestly I think it's racism!

[megz]

:mad:!Racist!:mad:

[JustWatching]

Please do correct me if I'm wrong....but I believe the gentleman suggesting this whole idea is black....(perhaps I read the article incorrectly)

Now there are going to be meetings/debates about the idea where everyone will be included.

However here is what I am almost 100% sure of....It won't work....Black only schools or not....now...here is the reason

The issue is starting at home....and on the streets....it is not only a problem for black students/kids...it is a problem for a lot of races...

You have gangs....parents that don't give a rats a**....drugs or parents on drugs/drinking....abuse.... my god some of these kids have a full time job trying not to get killed by some person on the street....dealing with abuse....maybe no where to live cause their parents put them out....they don't have time to worry about school....it is very very sad. I am telling you now....yes they may learn abit more black history in a segerated school but until you get to the root of problem those numbers won't change....mark my words.

[girdy]

:mad:!Racist!:mad:

Perhaps you could stop long enough to read the article.

A Black school trustee is talking about debating the merits of opening ONE Black school in Toronto. So a few Black kids would have the option of going there, or to an integrated school.

Racism is institutionalizing a lower or prejudicial standard on the people of a race, based solely on their race. There is no indication that the Black school trustee wants to provide a sub-standard care to Black kids. He actually wants to improve the quality of education to Black kids. How is that racism?

[mizunderstood]

I agree with you girdy.

[Cherry Pop]

I guess I was thinking that having separate schools for Whites and Blacks seems a little racist to me. I understand trying to improve the quality of education to Black children but can't they bring those classes/teachers/etc into the current schools where white and black children now attend. Plus it wouldn't hurt for the white children to learn more about black history as well!

[girdy]

I think it would be racist if you forced Black kids to go to Black only schools. But if you offer Black kids a choice between integrated or Black-only schools, that's a different matter.

I agree with you Cherry Pop, I think the best thing is integrated schools, and more diverse education.

[sarahnb]

It's more about culture than race. Don't we have French schools? And French Immersion? We offer a choice not segregation.

[girdy]

It's more about culture than race. Don't we have French schools? And French Immersion? We offer a choice not segregation.

Nicely said. And in some areas, like Ontario, Catholic schools. Perhaps there are other choices in some places.

[mizunderstood]

excellent point sarahnb!

[trinity]

Maybe dealing with the individual child himself.. Not basing his needs on the colour of his skin.. would be a start..

But the problems these students are experiencing ARE based on the colour of their skin, in so far as the families/neighbourhoods/social groups they are growing up in. Why shouldn't the solution match the problem?

They could consider a school for children who are not as "developed" mentally.. based on test scores.. or whatever else they would base them on. I just hate the generalization people make on people because of their skin colour.. I am sure there are different statictics regarding people with white skin.. but that doesnt mean they should be seperated from black people..
I see what they are "trying" to do.. but i dont see that providing any solution.

And what happens when 95 % of the students in that "special" school, who are placed there based on test scores, are black? Are we then not labeling all black students as stupid? it is not about saying these students are stupid because they are black, they are falling behind because they generally face challenges that white kids don't.

[mommyd]

Why is race so touchy...yes, the world has had problems with it in the past, and even still now, but the only way we're ever going to get past it is if ppl would just stop jumping down other ppls throats for even just mentioning the word black in regards to a person. There are schools for single sexes, single religions, why not single ethnicities. Lets look past that some ppl may think this is all about doing something BAD for them, and realise it could be GOOD for them. Especially since it would be a CHOICE. If i had a choice to go to a certain school and was able to learn what I wanted to learn, especially if i could learn more about myself, i would definately choose to go there.

I would think that doing nothing to help what statistics are telling them is true, would be a ton more racist than this.

If this was some sort of school for chinese students they were trying to get up and running no one would be calling anyone racists. In fact, they'd probably be mad they weren't doing it for their specific ethnicity or race. No one is trying to segregate black ppl AWAY from white ppl.. they are trying to help ppl in need of help.. they just happen to have the color skin that most ppl associate the most with racism.

[magoosmomma]

It's more about culture than race. Don't we have French schools? And French Immersion? We offer a choice not segregation.

excellent point

[FutureChief88]

But the problems these students are experiencing ARE based on the colour of their skin, in so far as the families/neighbourhoods/social groups they are growing up in. Why shouldn't the solution match the problem?



And what happens when 95 % of the students in that "special" school, who are placed there based on test scores, are black? Are we then not labeling all black students as stupid? it is not about saying these students are stupid because they are black, they are falling behind because they generally face challenges that white kids don't.


No.. the problems being experienced are not because their skin is a different colour. These students go through the same things most children go through nowadays.. Parents that dont care.. children that do not want to learn. This is not attributed to what colour skin they have, whether they are male of female, hederosexual or homosexual, this decision is being made saying they are not up to par because they are black. which i dont agree with.

And if it ended up that 95% of the people that ended up there were black.. than so be it..at least the end result was people needing to be there becuase their education level was not equal with the children surrounding them. Not based on their enthnicity.

As far as the french schools.. I agree.. But that is a different language.. not the same as this situation. I choose that i want to speak french.. I dont choose to be black and seperated from white people because someone tells me my race is not as smart as others..whether that person is the same race as me or not. I agree with the idea of black children learning more about their heritage.. I think white children should learn more about their heritage as well! When i was in school.. all i learned about was American history.. i didnt want to learn about that.. i wanted to learn about canadian history.. i know very little about my white history.. but i went to school.. and did what i was told cause they told me to do it..

there are certain parts about this segregation i dont mind.. Like i say i believe they should learn more of their history.. I just dont agree with saying they must be seperated because they are black.. they are not stupid cause they are black, they are stupid because of thier parents.. or their surroundings.. or whatever.. Many white children suffer from this as well.

[JustWatching]

Again....I have to say it does not matter how they decide to fill this school (be it through test scores....color of skin....etc)....the problem remains the same....it will not work....if you have 95% of a school filled with black children (based on whatever criteria)....lets go a step further and say they have all black teachers....with lots of black history....great. Problem still remains....give your head a shake...it isn't coincidence that all these kids are having issues....get to the root of the issue....in a lot of cases it will be issues at home (abuse/drugs/drinking/raising themselves) then you also have gangs ect.
<O:p
It is not as simple as build a school....give them a little history lesson and everything will be ok....it doesn't work like that. <O:p</O:p
<O:p
Why don't we drop the idea of a choice for this school....and come up with a real life solution....<O:p</O:p

[mommyd]

ok, then it can be your job to go to every single one of those homes and find out what their root cause is.. and then come up with a way to fix them. That sounds easy enough.
They can only do as much as they can. No one can tell anyone how to live.. parents that aren't doing anything for their children aren't going to change their ways just because someone comes to them and tells them they aren't doing their job. Giving children an opportunity outside of their home life to feel good about who they are will help stop the cycle of whatever is going on. And then they can pass on the good to their children.. instead of the bad that has been passed down to them thus far.

Again....I have to say it does not matter how they decide to fill this school (be it through test scores....color of skin....etc)....the problem remains the same....it will not work....if you have 95% of a school filled with black children (based on whatever criteria)....lets go a step further and say they have all black teachers....with lots of black history....great. Problem still remains....give your head a shake...it isn't coincidence that all these kids are having issues....get to the root of the issue....in a lot of cases it will be issues at home (abuse/drugs/drinking/raising themselves) then you also have gangs ect.
<O:p
It is not as simple as build a school....give them a little history lesson and everything will be ok....it doesn't work like that. <O:p</O:p
<O:p
Why don't we drop the idea of a choice for this school....and come up with a real life solution....<O:p</O:p

[JustWatching]

ok, then it can be your job to go to every single one of those homes and find out what their root cause is.. and then come up with a way to fix them. That sounds easy enough.
They can only do as much as they can. No one can tell anyone how to live.. parents that aren't doing anything for their children aren't going to change their ways just because someone comes to them and tells them they aren't doing their job. Giving children an opportunity outside of their home life to feel good about who they are will help stop the cycle of whatever is going on. And then they can pass on the good to their children.. instead of the bad that has been passed down to them thus far.

I would love to be in a position of authority where I could make that big a difference....I wouldn't be sitting on my a** I can tell you that....I would be trying to come up with a solution....one based on reality.

Thank You for the vote of confidence though.

Actually you (well maybe not you or I) but the law....social services ect can tell these parents how to live (in some ways)....they are accountable for these children....the schools need to involve people in authority....hold someone accountable for children not showing up at school for days/weeks on end....Get them on the phone (or write...asking for a return phone call) "YOUR child is failing badly....do you care?????" If not there is a problem....look there are many opportunities that teachers/others can get involved...maybe you can't help everyone....but it is not normal....natural or in any way ok to accept that 50% of "X" students are failing/dropping out.... if with those numbers the school system doesn't look into this further then THEY too are failing these kids

[mommyd]

it is unrealistic to think every home can be visited, and then, to think that every home visited could be changed. There aren't enough social workers to do such a thing.. it would takes years , and every year there are even more homes that would be needed to be added to the list. It is also unrealistic to believe that when they do find some big problems such as abuse/neglect that putting these childrens into foster homes (and not all of them are foster familes) will help everyone. A lot of kids in those types of homes act the same way, if not worse. Not to mention some foster homes are just as abusive/neglectful.

At least with a school.. they can moniter and track in one institution.
A school IS realistic. It's not just about offering a class on black history and making everything ok. It's offering these kids something for THEM, offering them help, ppl to talk to, attention, etc, etc, whatever they are going to offer them. It's not about separating them from white (and other ethnicities don't forget) and that's what's going to make them better ppl..that's not what it is about.

"By 16, more than half of all young black males in Toronto public schools have fallen behind. They don't have the required credits – 16 by age 16 – which means they're more likely to drop out."

MORE THAN HALF.. that is crazy. There is obviously a need for some intervention.. and visiting their homes just isn't going to cut it (even if it was possible to visit them all)

Just remember, they are not separating them BECAUSE they are black. They are trying to come up with a solution to help students that are in dire need of it.. they just HAPPEN to be black.

It's hitting such a bad note with ppl because of the segregation between black and white in the past, and i can understand that. I just hope that ppl can get past that, since it's not the same thing at all, and realise that these kids need help.

more than half..that is a huge number.
Not to mention it takes money to offer programs and such..and having a school specifiicly for young afraican-americans will prompt certain ppl to donate to the school who wouldn't normally hand over money to just any public school for them to do what they wish with it.
opp-jmmjmkkl,l.,
Also.. supporting something like this does NOT mean you're racist. Racist ppl WOULDN"T want something like this,because it means giving african americans something white ppl don't have that may help give them an edge.

[mizunderstood]

I like the fact that they can CHOOSE to go to this school or stay at their current school... That is a great idea, then they won't feel like they are being singled out because they are black. It is their choice.
IT is not a new fact that more than half of black kids drop out, fail out, end up in jail before their 21st birthday. That has been a long known fact. I think it is a great idea to finally have SOMETHING to help them. Just because you support or agree with this idea of a new school does not make you racist. Like someone else said. There are segregated schools in canada already.
EX- RCS Netherwood- Is that not a christian school?
We have muslim schools, we have jewish schools, we have arabic schools, we have french schools, we have catholic schools, just to name a few.
We have schools for every different culture that addresses the specific beliefs, needs, wants of that group, so why not a black school? '
The reason I believe this is such a huge debate is because of the recent history of black vs white. It is still an open sore, so this debate is like rubbing salt in that wound.
There is no way to find out what the roots of failure are in each individual child. What we need as a country is be be more involved in our children whether they be black, white, purple, brown or green! Parents need to be involved in the education of their child, they need to be better role models, they need to be involved.I am sure that if parents were more involved with their children both in school and at home, I know the drop out rates, teen pregnancy rates, incarceration rates, etc would drop substantially.

[FutureChief88]

Just remember, they are not separating them BECAUSE they are black. They are trying to come up with a solution to help students that are in dire need of it.. they just HAPPEN to be black.



So why not seperate for whites, asain, chinese.. I mean this city has more chinese people than white people..it seems.. I dont see an all chinese school..
Again.. i dont disagree that these students need more help.. and i dont think that having schools for different beliefs, etc.. has anything to do with the colour of thier skin.. im sorry.. i just dont agree with it. Maybe its just the title.. i dont know..

Also. RCS is not Catholic..

[Mandi]

it is unrealistic to think every home can be visited, and then, to think that every home visited could be changed. There aren't enough social workers to do such a thing.. it would takes years , and every year there are even more homes that would be needed to be added to the list. It is also unrealistic to believe that when they do find some big problems such as abuse/neglect that putting these childrens into foster homes (and not all of them are foster familes) will help everyone. A lot of kids in those types of homes act the same way, if not worse. Not to mention some foster homes are just as abusive/neglectful.

At least with a school.. they can moniter and track in one institution.
A school IS realistic. It's not just about offering a class on black history and making everything ok. It's offering these kids something for THEM, offering them help, ppl to talk to, attention, etc, etc, whatever they are going to offer them. It's not about separating them from white (and other ethnicities don't forget) and that's what's going to make them better ppl..that's not what it is about.

"By 16, more than half of all young black males in Toronto public schools have fallen behind. They don't have the required credits – 16 by age 16 – which means they're more likely to drop out."

MORE THAN HALF.. that is crazy. There is obviously a need for some intervention.. and visiting their homes just isn't going to cut it (even if it was possible to visit them all)

Just remember, they are not separating them BECAUSE they are black. They are trying to come up with a solution to help students that are in dire need of it.. they just HAPPEN to be black.

It's hitting such a bad note with ppl because of the segregation between black and white in the past, and i can understand that. I just hope that ppl can get past that, since it's not the same thing at all, and realise that these kids need help.

more than half..that is a huge number.
Not to mention it takes money to offer programs and such..and having a school specifiicly for young afraican-americans will prompt certain ppl to donate to the school who wouldn't normally hand over money to just any public school for them to do what they wish with it.
opp-jmmjmkkl,l.,
Also.. supporting something like this does NOT mean you're racist. Racist ppl WOULDN"T want something like this,because it means giving african americans something white ppl don't have that may help give them an edge.

I have to agree... It's nice to see someone with a good head on their shoulders. I don't think that separating based on color is a good way to go about it. But if it's all based on academics, I see no problem. There is a problem, and they're trying to fix it, and unfortunately considering the problem concerning colored people they're going to fall under heavy scrutiny no matter their solution.

[FutureChief88]

I have to agree... It's nice to see someone with a good head on their shoulders. I don't think that separating based on color is a good way to go about it. But if it's all based on academics, I see no problem. There is a problem, and they're trying to fix it, and unfortunately considering the problem concerning colored people they're going to fall under heavy scrutiny no matter their solution.


Well thats exactly my point.. Based on acedemics.. not their skin colour..

[Mandi]

So why not seperate for whites, asain, chinese.. I mean this city has more chinese people than white people..it seems.. I dont see an all chinese school..
Again.. i dont disagree that these students need more help.. and i dont think that having schools for different beliefs, etc.. has anything to do with the colour of thier skin.. im sorry.. i just dont agree with it. Maybe its just the title.. i dont know..

Also. RCS is not Catholic..

the title segregation is a terrible one :( But I think the idea was come up with the best of intentions. I would like to think that race never came to mind when they thought this up, I may be wrong, but maybe it didn't? I have so much hope for the human race as a whole, I find it hard to think that people would say ' you can't go here because you're black'. I really don't think that is the case, I think it's really a positive idea. Maybe they looked at test scores and found a like denominator, and it just happened to be race.

[Mandi]

Well thats exactly my point.. Based on acedemics.. not their skin colour..

I have to re read the articles :) I thought it was something based on academics with the majority of those falling behind being black. I think that education for everyone is a good idea, and finding a way to do it efficiently is great ! :)

[dale & barb]

We received a big dose of European and Canadian history, but not African and Canadian history. Why would a Black kid care about European history or geography?


i was i white kid in school (still white now) and i didn't care about European history or geography, so i don't see how that is relevant to any black students.

dale

[FutureChief88]

I have to re read the articles :) I thought it was something based on academics with the majority of those falling behind being black. I think that education for everyone is a good idea, and finding a way to do it efficiently is great ! :)


Well i guess they say it is.. but i find it funny that all of these students happen to be black.. thats is too much of a coincidence to me.. maybe i am wrong.. i dont know..

[FutureChief88]

We received a big dose of European and Canadian history, but not African and Canadian history. Why would a Black kid care about European history or geography?


i was i white kid in school (still white now) and i didn't care about European history or geography, so i don't see how that is relevant to any black students.

dale

yes i would think if they are dedicating a school to black history.. How about my history..
I just find it weird.. thats all..

[JustWatching]

Ok....I think I'm being misunderstood here....I never once said that EVERY child could be helped....never once said to knock on EVERY parents door....nor did I bring up that anyone is racist on here....or that this (new school) is a racist act.

What I'm simply agreeing with is it doesn't matter if the issue is with Asians, Blacks, Natives, Whites whatever....what I'm trying to say is we can build seperate schools if we want....but if it doesn't HELP to solve the root issue then it won't make much difference.

I think the bottom line is society....lawmakers...teachers...school systems...social service agencies....all have a responsibilty to all kids....but most of all the PARENTS....hold them responsible....you can't just throw up your hands and say that's too much to deal with....bad parents are going to stay bad parents....what the heck is that....

It happens here....why isn't something done right here in SJ....its not like we have millions of doors to knock on....parents are not held responsible for their actions....and for the failure of the their kids

[mommyd]

Because statistics don't show that over half of those ppl are dropping out of school. This is ontario they are talking about.. where over half of the young black males is a very large number... nothing like over here.

And the chinese ppl here are coming here from somewhere else for the most part. Also, it's secondary education that they are entering into, which is not mandatory. And this is my observation.. when i was in highschool, we had 26 chinese students go to school with us . They were all smart, they had to be. Chinese culture is very different. They place VERY VERY high standards on their education. And other things too, that's why we see so many excellent asian gymnasts. They work very hard at what they do and are smart in general, from my experience.

And yes, it shouldn't be having anything to do with the word segregation. Because that is not what's going on here at all.


So why not seperate for whites, asain, chinese.. I mean this city has more chinese people than white people..it seems.. I dont see an all chinese school..
Again.. i dont disagree that these students need more help.. and i dont think that having schools for different beliefs, etc.. has anything to do with the colour of thier skin.. im sorry.. i just dont agree with it. Maybe its just the title.. i dont know..

Also. RCS is not Catholic..

[mommyd]

Because it is unconstitutional or whatever, to tell ppl how to raise their children. If there is neglect or abuse, then it should be reported yes. But it's not anyone else's responsibility to just "do something" about the way a parent behaves with their children (other than if it's something that should be reported). Like as long as a parent is feeding their kids well and such, keeping them clean, but not playing with them, taking them to fun places, or letting them watch tv whenever they aren't in school.. you can't do anything about that.. that is their choice, and you can't pull kids out of homes for that. It's not JUST the kids that arebeing abused that are missing out on leanring structure and dicspline..

And what if a school such as this does help? And they don't go ahead with it.. then they aren't doing anything to rectify the situation.

And yes, you can "throw your arms up in the air and says it's too much to do" because it is.. even if they were to try.. it would be impossible. So instead of going ahead with something that is ridiculous, they are going to try for a school such as this. What are you going to do to parents to hold them responsible hmm?
I was never abused, but my parents didn't take much interest in making sure i did well inschool.. i just did my thing. Was never in trouble.. i believe them not being involved with my schooling is the culprit for doing poorly. I didn't fail grades or anything, but i could have been better with parent support. How do you sugest my parentsbe "held responsible" for that? again, unrealistic. You can't MAKE a parent do those things.. even ifyou tell them repeatedly. My parents weren't bad ppl, they just made mistakes. You cant punish ppl for that.

And.. if the issue WAS with asians, natives, whites, whatever, i would think they would do the same for them. But no it just happens to be afraican-americans. Over half is a huge number. THey are not only helping these kids out now, they will be helping out for future generations as well each child they reach through this school, they wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

Also.. i talked about different things in my thread.. i didn't say it was ALL in response to your post.. i just had other things to say and i wasn't going to make a whole new post.



Ok....I think I'm being misunderstood here....I never once said that EVERY child could be helped....never once said to knock on EVERY parents door....nor did I bring up that anyone is racist on here....or that this (new school) is a racist act.

What I'm simply agreeing with is it doesn't matter if the issue is with Asians, Blacks, Natives, Whites whatever....what I'm trying to say is we can build seperate schools if we want....but if it doesn't HELP to solve the root issue then it won't make much difference.

I think the bottom line is society....lawmakers...teachers...school systems...social service agencies....all have a responsibilty to all kids....but most of all the PARENTS....hold them responsible....you can't just throw up your hands and say that's too much to deal with....bad parents are going to stay bad parents....what the heck is that....

It happens here....why isn't something done right here in SJ....its not like we have millions of doors to knock on....parents are not held responsible for their actions....and for the failure of the their kids

[JustWatching]

And this is my observation.. when i was in highschool, we had 26 chinese students go to school with us . They were all smart, they had to be. Chinese culture is very different. They place VERY VERY high standards on their education. And other things too, that's why we see so many excellent asian gymnasts. They work very hard at what they do and are smart in general, from my experience.

Hmmmm....seems strange doesn't it....a whole other race....not too much Asian history in my school anyway....yet 26 out of 26 were all very smart.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Sounds like great stats to me....I can tell you that the reason for that is very obvious....expectations....parents that drove them to succeed....probably ok to very good family lives....<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

They were expected to do well....standards are high....all those kids weren't just born exceptionally smart....they learned to do well.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

So I think that proves my point that parents play a pivotal role in their kids’ futures....
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
The failure of a lot of those students is on the backs of their parents!<O:p</O:p

[FutureChief88]

Well i dropped out of school.. so how many others???

white people drop out of school just as much.. I guess..

[JustWatching]

I'm sorry about your situation....but I really feel you are over simplifying the issue....yes some of those kids may be in the same situation as you were in....however many are much much worse....those situations can be dealt with legally....through the school....social services....courts etc.

Even if the numbers could be lowered to 25%....still high but it is a start....

Teaching them history isn't going to help them deal with abusive parents or living on the street....

Of course I'm more for the way the British do things....here is an example of how this could be enforced....I bet you'd see some parents getting off their A** then....force them to be parents....not baby donors<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Should parents be held responsible for child truancy?

<!-- NOLImage -->http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1980000/images/_1984821_truancy_tp300.jpg
<!-- /NOLImage -->A mother-of-two has been jailed for 60 days for failing to stop her children playing truant.
It is believed to be the first time magistrates have passed such a sentence on a parent whose children are missing school.
The woman received a sentence of three months imprisonment in Banbury, Oxfordshire, for not ensuring her two daughters regular attended school. The government has made tackling truancy a priority, with Prime Minister Tony Blair suggesting that parents of children who repeatedly miss school could lose child benefit payments.

[FutureChief88]

Good way of doing it tho.. That would be awesome..

My daughter has missed one day of school this year and that was because of my own stupidity... i thought there was no school.. lol

[mommyd]

Yes, parents. .. and their society and culture have high expectations. You can't just TELL someone to have high expectations. They have a whole culture to back them up. That's how most are raised there, and have been for generations upon generations. Parents, schools, and society have HIGH expectations. It's not like that here.
Here, everyone has different expectations.. and different opinions on what expectations are acceptable. And then again, parents and teachers also have different expectations of children. You can't compare them.
What goes on over there is high expectations, that is their reality.
Over here, in ontario,over half young black males drop out of highschool.. that is their reality. You can't just send home notices to kid's parents first day of school or after they are born saying "please set high expectations for your children so they won't drop out of school.. thanks" There are lots of parents that do set out high expectations for their children. But that is their own choice, and what they learned as children. But that doesn't help the countless other children that don't have that luxery. Hence, the possible need for a school such as this.

I'm not saying the problem isn't with parents. It would be amazing if every parent expected enough of their kids, reinforced, and were better parents all around. Sometimes, parents are just making mistakes, it's not necessarily they are being horrible parents. Sometimes, parents are trying to do the BEST for their kids (having more than one job maybe) and are unable to make sure their kids are doing what they should. sometimes you just can't rectify a situation by going to the ROOT, especially with SO MANY. Sometimes Intervention has to be made in a different way. And this would be one of those times.

I would rather they try for a school such as this , than ignore the situation altogether.




Hmmmm....seems strange doesn't it....a whole other race....not too much Asian history in my school anyway....yet 26 out of 26 were all very smart.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Sounds like great stats to me....I can tell you that the reason for that is very obvious....expectations....parents that drove them to succeed....probably ok to very good family lives....<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

They were expected to do well....standards are high....all those kids weren't just born exceptionally smart....they learned to do well.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

So I think that proves my point that parents play a pivotal role in their kids’ futures....
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
The failure of a lot of those students is on the backs of their parents!<O:p</O:p

[mommyd]

wow, i must say that is quite interesting.






I'm sorry about your situation....but I really feel you are over simplifying the issue....yes some of those kids may be in the same situation as you were in....however many are much much worse....those situations can be dealt with legally....through the school....social services....courts etc.

Even if the numbers could be lowered to 25%....still high but it is a start....

Teaching them history isn't going to help them deal with abusive parents or living on the street....

Of course I'm more for the way the British do things....here is an example of how this could be enforced....I bet you'd see some parents getting off this A** then....force them to be parents....not baby donors<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Should parents be held responsible for child truancy?

<!-- NOLImage -->http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1980000/images/_1984821_truancy_tp300.jpg
<!-- /NOLImage -->A mother-of-two has been jailed for 60 days for failing to stop her children playing truant.
It is believed to be the first time magistrates have passed such a sentence on a parent whose children are missing school.
The woman received a sentence of three months imprisonment in Banbury, Oxfordshire, for not ensuring her two daughters regular attended school. The government has made tackling truancy a priority, with Prime Minister Tony Blair suggesting that parents of children who repeatedly miss school could lose child benefit payments.

[orange]

Hmmmm....seems strange doesn't it....a whole other race....not too much Asian history in my school anyway....yet 26 out of 26 were all very smart.
<O:p</O:p

They were expected to do well....standards are high....all those kids weren't just born exceptionally smart....they learned to do well.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

I think they quite possibly were born smarter than average though... to go half-way around the world costs a lot, which means only x% of people can do it. And then there are stringent immigration requirements to get into Canada (in terms of education requirements or skills), which means an even smaller percentage can settle. I think immigration is tougher now than it was 50-100 years ago.

But yeah, given how hard it is for their parents to do all that does give them higher expectations too, so that they probably work very hard as well.

[mizunderstood]

So why not seperate for whites, asain, chinese.. I mean this city has more chinese people than white people..it seems.. I dont see an all chinese school..
Again.. i dont disagree that these students need more help.. and i dont think that having schools for different beliefs, etc.. has anything to do with the colour of thier skin.. im sorry.. i just dont agree with it. Maybe its just the title.. i dont know..

Also. RCS is not Catholic..


Do you (not you specifically) realize that there are schools for asians, natives, muslum, etc in canada already? This is not a NEW idea. However it seems to be getting a lot of debate because it is a color issue that has been a very negitive part of north american history.

I think that giving them the choice to attend this new school is the key to success. If a child has a choice they will probably do far better then if they were forced to attend an "all black school"

As far as teaching them "all black material, in an all black school, with all black teachers" I have a major issue with that. Sure they should know their history and culture, BUT I don't understand how math, english, science, etc can be taught "black" kwim?

I agree that parents NEED to step it up a notch and get involved with their children. I don't care if you are a single mom with 12 kids working 3 jobs (just using that as an example) You NEED to MAKE time for your children. Even if it is just 5 minutes a day! Something is better than nothing.

As far as the parents being held accountable for their kids being "truant" I agree with that TO A DEGREE... I mean, how far can you go with that? I am sure a parent cannot afford 60 days off from work, away from the kids. etc. But there should be something set up for this. I don't know what someone can probably come up with better ideas than I can right now.

I am sure the high school drop out rate is high even with white children, but the issue here is trying to get the colored kids out of poverty through education. Education has never really been an important thing for sooo many of them. Many of them have grown up on the streets, or had a very hard life, single moms, drugs, prejustice, discriminataion etc. The goal here is to put the emphasis on education is the key to the door of the future.

Also I didn't say RCS was catholic, I said christian :)

[FutureChief88]

O sorry.. its not christian either.. i went there for a year and i am neither.. lol

I agree.. I guess for me.. its that i see asians, muslims, etc as different culture.. because i am not used to them.. i am used to black people however.. and i dont see them as different culture.. but they are..

i guess i was wrong for thinking that..

Also.. I think if they are doing this for every race, ethnicity. under the sun.. then there should be one for white people as well.. I mean lets go the whole mile if were going half way..

I think children should be taught "human" history.. not certain backgrounds just on themselves and the culture they came from..

Its educational to know about every culture .. and every background.. we should all be taught what these black people are being taught.. then maybe racism wouldnt be so strong..
this also goes for asian cultures, muslim cultures.. etc.. I would have loved to have been taught about my fellow man..

[orange]

As far as teaching them "all black material, in an all black school, with all black teachers" I have a major issue with that. Sure they should know their history and culture, BUT I don't understand how math, english, science, etc can be taught "black" kwim?


I saw this article today:
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/276932


Debunking myths about African-centred schools

It mentions:


""Black only" or "all black" ?
No focused school will operate solely for black students and/or teachers. They will be open to all who share Afrocentric ideals, who have high expectations of the learner and who are willing to go the extra mile to ensure success for all. The African-centred school is defined more by a set of principles and philosophies governing the conduct of school than the race of its students and teachers.

Curriculum?
The curriculum will be rigorous and follow provincial standards in teaching English, science, mathematics, arts, history, philosophy and culture. Indeed, the amount of time devoted to the study of European history at an African-centred school will far exceed the time devoted to the study of African history at a conventional school. The difference is that students will engage the curriculum using their own complex histories and myriad identities as important entry points from which to make broader connections. "


I'm personally on the fence with the issue, but I can see merits in it. There are "historically-Black" colleges in the US that work well for some kids, and the same might be true for high schools.




Do you (not you specifically) realize that there are schools for asians, natives, muslum, etc in canada already?

I don't think there are schools specifically for Asians in Canada... there are schools centred on kids of particular religions, but I don't think any based on ethnicities except French (well, not really ethnicity I guess) and Native.

But you do have a point... the above article does mention this:

"At present, Canada has Catholic schools, all-girls schools, French immersion schools, First Nations schools, schools for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgendered students, to name a few. "

[sarahnb]

Check out this school in Atlanta. http://www.ronclarkacademy.com/ron_clark_academy/about.asp
My brother had the opportunity to tour it and said it is amazing.
It's for low income students but I imagine a lot of them would be different minorities.

[FutureChief88]

Wow.. Seeing 6 continents in 3 years.. thats AMAZING! I wish i had have had that schooling.. So innovative! Bravo to him!

[mizunderstood]

Check out this school in Atlanta. http://www.ronclarkacademy.com/ron_clark_academy/about.asp
My brother had the opportunity to tour it and said it is amazing.
It's for low income students but I imagine a lot of them would be different minorities.

That would be an amazing school! I want to go... lol... I can pass as an 8th grader... hehe

[trinity]

Because statistics don't show that over half of those ppl are dropping out of school. This is ontario they are talking about.. where over half of the young black males is a very large number... nothing like over here.


Exactly- we don't know anything about it because we don't experience it. Think about your school/your kids' school- if half the black students dropped out, from most schools you would lose 8-10 students, some schools 2 or 3... or none...
I graduated with a class of 170. 1 Pakistani girl, 2 black girls, no Asians... That would be 1.8% of my entire school. In junior high and elementary both, my "grad" class was 100% white.

We are not a particularly ethnic city as yet so we don't see how people are treated in a mixed culture situation, although some local reaction to Chinese students who are simply staying here to go to school ought to give us a hint about how things can be. Out west the native people are treated as badly as the black people in the US- if people got on about giving them their own school in Toronto, no one would say anything, they would accept it as "it's their culture." Why can't some people accept that being black can also be a CULTURAL thing?

[Misty589]

i hate the black dissing going on ... there is nothing that proves a black male is more stupid then a white male... personally i think black guys are smarter i would never ever date another white guy ever again ha i had to add that there but this whole thing is racist

THAT is a very racist statement, you are still grouping people by color, weather you think you are doing it in a positive way or not, it's still racism

[mizunderstood]

I thought the same thing misty. lol..

[rhiley_08j]

Why is that whenever someone mentions anything to do with another skin color it is automatically percieved as racist? Let's forget skin color altogether. Let's look at the statistics, the facts. The reason this "particular group" is in the situation they are is a product of their upbringing and their culture. There are many "white" people that are in the same vote. Yes discrimination exists, but not just for blacks, does that mean that those that are discriminated against should be able to use that as an excuse to not make more of their life. I don't care who you are, what color your skin is, or how much money you have, etc. Life is what you make it, and if you constantly allow others to get you down, than that is where you are going to stay. It's up to ourselves, no matter who we are on the outside should not affect ourselves on the inside. Now personally, I believe that each and everyone of us are brothers and sisters, but I am also not blind to the facts. Look at the lifestyles that surround a "black community" where if you are white you are not safe in those areas. Who creates that stigma? If people want change, than they need to start with themselves, that goes for each and everyone of us.

[trinity]

No one is saying that black men are less intelligent than white men, just that they drop out of school in far greater numbers, far younger. The main reason is a home social environment that does not discourage the dropping out- if your father, uncle, brother and cousin dropped out of school, you have a greater chance of doing it too. So they want to create a school where the environment is more suited to encouraging an at-risk group to stay in school, where the staff understand the student's home lives better than teachers who work with mostly white, middle class kids.

[FutureChief88]

Which is fine.. But why not creat a school Based on that.. The acedemic requirements and children that need the extra attention.. Not just black students.. Yes hopefully they will have the choice to go.. but i am sure white kids wont be able to attend.. So no..IMO it is not based on acedemics .. If it was all children who needed extra attention when it came to acedemics.. they would be of all races..