Message from a hard working Canadian

[The_Dave]

Kind of makes you go HMMMMMMM

I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my
taxes as it sees fit. In order to earn that pay cheque, as I work on
a rig site or a Fort Mac construction project, I am required to pass a random urine test, with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare cheque because I have to pass one to earn it for them...?? Please understand - I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their arse drinking beer & smoking dope. Could you imagine how much money the provinces would save if people
had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance cheque...? Please
pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all
will pass it along though, because something has to change in this
country, and soon...!

[leeleemom]

Kind of makes you go HMMMMMMM

I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my
taxes as it sees fit. In order to earn that pay cheque, as I work on
a rig site or a Fort Mac construction project, I am required to pass a random urine test, with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare cheque because I have to pass one to earn it for them...?? Please understand - I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their arse drinking beer & smoking dope. Could you imagine how much money the provinces would save if people
had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance cheque...? Please
pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all
will pass it along though, because something has to change in this
country, and soon...!

You know Dave you make a good point! Correct me if I am wrong though but isn't the reason that you get tested at work for safety reasons? That they don't want people high on the job? Don't get me wrong it makes me angry to see some people get their assistance cheque and head to the liquor store first thing but what can we do? I don't think the government would be allowed to drug test for an assistance cheque. Where as where you work they do it for safety reasons.

[The_Dave]

You know Dave you make a good point! Correct me if I am wrong though but isn't the reason that you get tested at work for safety reasons? That they don't want people high on the job? Don't get me wrong it makes me angry to see some people get their assistance cheque and head to the liquor store first thing but what can we do? I don't think the government would be allowed to drug test for an assistance cheque. Where as where you work they do it for safety reasons.

I am just posting this as someone sent it to me. I feel there is some good logic to it though.

You are right though, because the first thing I thought of as the reason for testing was the safety issue. But........what if??? Imagine the billions saved world wide. IMAGINE?????????

[mutt]

your right, it does make you say HMMMMMMMMM. Well put Dave!!

[MezMaRi]

Welllllll....this is interesting no isnt it, mixing up the 2 things dave dislikes most, drugs and welfare. I am a pot smoker have been for years and years and I dunno not all of us are drug addicted losers

[MezMaRi]

i understand your logic BTW....and understand where you are coming from. But it just wont ever happen :)....as testing for a job is stated under your contract, if they put such rules on assistance people could fight it against their human rights....and probably win...so although some of you may find it valid the bottom line is it probaly wont happen

[mutt]

I don't think that is the point he's trying to make!

[suesguy]

Well, I'll say this... I would not want to work with mezmari if you have been smoking pot for years. Good thing your work doesn't test...you'd be fired. I am sure there are those that smoke pot, hash etc...and go to work or at work(I've seen it) and although I do not "rat" on them, I refuse to work with them....seen too many stupid mistakes caused by being high.

[MezMaRi]

Well First of all getting high before work is irresponsible. I have never gotten high before work and dont plan to do so in the near future. If i toke its recreational...evenings, weekends, etc. NO ONE should be on drugs while at work, and NO ONE should be wasting their assistance money on drugs.

However it would be easy to tell without a test weather or not the person was on drugs or not. Simply go into their homes and see their way of life...I know that I couldnt not afford to buy it with assistance money and still have all my other bills paid on time. There is just not enough money, and my child would come First.

These people you are referring to that smoke at work are ridiculous.....I have read numerous studies on marijauna that state both cigarettes and alcohol are More harmful than cannabis/thc but that is a discussion for another time.

[MezMaRi]

and mutt i dont think dave has a point. He constantly goes off about welfare and how we should treat those on it basically like a number. Each person is unique and each case (although following the same guidelines set out by the gov.) are treated differently and with understanding. Dave is constantly upset at his tax paying dollars going to welfare but the matter is that only about 5% of his total yearly tax pay out goes to I.A receipients.


Which reminds me ...because this province is not self sufficent, people from OTHER provinces are paying more for welfare than dave is. Unfortunatley out west many see the maritimes in a negative light...ever wonder why??? Because to them having a dual income of 48,800 a year is chump change compared to what the rest of this country is contributing....NB doesnt hold its own weight..never has...

[suesguy]

Well, there are two types of people on welfare...those that are in dire straits and need assistance for a short while to get back up..(appluad applaud) , then there are those(we all know it) that are 2nd, 3rd, even 4th gereration welfare bums.They are raised in the system and know it better than social assistance workers, play the system like a puppet and waste our money on drugs, gambling etc..then cry to the public about how hard it is. Lets see...with 3 kids (family allowance) and social assistance, they make more them a lot of us working (heard one brag on the bus one day)...$1750 per month all together...so..test em..if they are on it for longer than 6 months...make it a contract item with the government.

Apparently, MezMaRi you either know very little about marijuana or deny the facts. It takes days for it to leave your system. It destroys brain cells, and results in memory etc:
The main active chemical in marijuana is THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol). The membranes of certain nerve cells in the brain contain protein receptors that bind to THC. Once securely in place, THC kicks off a series of cellular reactions that ultimately lead to the high that users experience when they smoke marijuana. The short-term effects of marijuana can include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate. Research findings for long-term marijuana abuse indicate some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term abuse of other major drugs. For example, cannabinoid (THC or synthetic forms of THC) withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system5 and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine6. Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Depression, anxiety, and personality disturbances18 have been associated with chronic marijuana use. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.

[MezMaRi]

Suesguy I am not gonna post steal, I sent you 2 articles from the American Sociology assiocation and carleton university that will disprove most of what you said. Marijauna is not addictive, it has no withdrawl, and it does not decrease your IQ, although that atricle is correct in stating it stays in your system for months at a time. Thats why herion users can pass a drug test in 48 hours and us poor pot smokers have to wait 3 months :)

[suesguy]

Why is it all those that smoke pot etc..claim there is nothing wrong with it? I did not grab the first google entry..I researched for one accreddited by doctors and research physicians. Your statements make little sense. How can inhaling smoke into your lungs, ingesting a drug that alters your perception of life not be harmful..and testing blood and urine shows it still in your system days later...wishful thinking, denial and ignorance. How many people out there would like to work with somone stoned say around heavy machinery or vehicles? Be honest.

[MezMaRi]

I will say dave that i understand how frustrating it is to watch people graciously take tax payers money. I.A can be wonderful for those using it as a hand up and not a hand out!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A single mother with 1 child gets 830 a month, plus baby bonus. So 1200. To live on your own with that would be nearly impossible. Single moms are allowed an income of 200 a month that doesnt get counted in with their earnings.

Here is the worst part. If you have more than 2000 in your bank account (which means a mother can not even try to save for something) you can be removed from the system??? We dont want it spent on drugs but yet we wont let them save????????????????

[MezMaRi]

Why dont you take the time my friend and read the articles. CLEARLY smoking ANYTHING causes cancer. That goes without saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT can cause respitory problems, increase chance of heart attack, pneumonia etc. NOTHING that cigarattes cant do though. But those 2 articles will disprove the notion that it A) has addictive qualitys and B) that people that toke on a recreational basis have a lowered IQ. see for yourself before you judge me :)

Oh and suesguy, i dont ever plan on doing hard labor that requires little to no education and no thought. I would prefer to use my brains than my brawn and that is why they drug test heavy lifters, machine operators, etc.

[JustWatching]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=800 background=../../Images/EServices/gradation.jpg border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Social Assistance</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Family and Community Services</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right colSpan=2>Family Income Security Act | http://app.infoaa.7700.gnb.ca/gnb/Images/EServices/pdficon.gif (http://www.gnb.ca/0062/PDF-acts/f-02-01.pdf) | HTML (http://www.gnb.ca/0062/acts/acts/f-02-01.htm)
95-61 - General | http://app.infoaa.7700.gnb.ca/gnb/Images/EServices/pdficon.gif (http://www.gnb.ca/0062/PDF-regs/95-61.pdf) | HTML (http://www.gnb.ca/0062/regs/95-61.htm)

</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=800 bgColor=white border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left colSpan=2>Overview:</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left colSpan=2>
Financial assistance is given to people who have no other income to meet their basic needs of food, clothing and shelter. By law social assistance is the payer of last resort. This means that all other income must be considered when determining how many dollars will be provided. Social assistance cannot be paid if there is any other income.




According to this basic definition....I wouldn't think that any money received from the Gov't (nevermind if it's tax
dollars or not) should be used on drugs etc....the fact that they have "no other money to meet their basic needs" tells
me that if they were tested for drugs and had them in their system...then maybe they're not using their money where it was meant to go...

And don't get me wrong here....I really don't care what they do....But I can see the principle behind what some people
are saying on here about where these people are spending their money (when it's meant for other things)

Of course lets not forget they could be getting their fix from a really good friend who supplies it to them for free (A LOT)

:rofl:

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[leeleemom]

OK I think we need to calm down about the weed subject. It is a debate that has been going on for years and will continue to go on for years. But I will say this. I don't smoke it. I have tried it. I smoke cigarettes. Honestly I believe that smoking cigarettes does more damage to you than weed. Also and this is just my opinion but I would rather work with someone who has smoked a joint then someone who comes to work drunk. I am not a supporter of pot but the argument that pot is the only problem is part of the problem.

[MezMaRi]

justwatching hit it right on the head. Most people who are using hard drugs I.E: cocaine,crack, cystal meth etc, have rescources that make them pay later if you know what i mean. There is no need to spend your welfare money if your getting it for free

[dan j]

The Dave, you don't have to do a urine test to make money. You have to do a urine test for that particular job because of the requirements. There are lots of jobs out there that do not require a urine test based on their requirements. Someone on social assistance does not need to be sober in order to perform nothing and if someone has a claim toward social assistance we can not control how they spend their money.

I just wanted to say this because your original post sounds as if everyone that works has to pass a urine test and everyone who doesn't work does not have to undergo one. It'd be safe to say that most lines of work do not require a urine test and not many people are going to get as interested in your complaint on logical grounds and mostly just because the big bad boogiewoman, the welfare mom is such an easy target.

[suesguy]

I will forego the "pot" arguement as, agreed, it never ends ,but to says you would rather work with someone stoned rather than drunk is not saying a lot...wouldn't neither be best? As far as using brains not brawn..that was the point...if are not smart enough to realize doing drugs is irresponsible and causes damage to health...begs the question of how smart you really are. I'm not bashing you but to implicate someone is less intelligent because they work with thier hands..again leaves questions to your "smarts". I work in a very technical job with very little physical demands but have done both...where is the bering on intelligence? I suggest to maybe light up another one, put on some music and escape reality as it seems to be your preference.

[leeleemom]

I will forego the "pot" arguement as, agreed, it never ends ,but to says you would rather work with someone stoned rather than drunk is not saying a lot...wouldn't neither be best? As far as using brains not brawn..that was the point...if are not smart enough to realize doing drugs is irresponsible and causes damage to health...begs the question of how smart you really are. I'm not bashing you but to implicate someone is less intelligent because they work with thier hands..again leaves questions to your "smarts". I work in a very technical job with very little physical demands but have done both...where is the bering on intelligence? I suggest to maybe light up another one, put on some music and escape reality as it seems to be your preference.

I did not say I would rather work with someone who was "stoned" than drunk. A lot of people I know do not get stoned with a few drags or even a joint. Most people I know you wouldn't even be able to tell. But I feel much safer with someone who has smoked a little than drinking. Just from personal experience Alcohol does so much damage not only to your body but to your family. Not that I condone it but I guess what I am saying is that I have never heard of a family being torn apart because of pot.

And as far as the educational comment...that wasn't me!

[suesguy]

I know, I was answering both in one post. As far as families being torn apart...what about going to jail? Having a criminal record, which impacts you ability to find employment? How many pot smokers do you know that just smoke pot?, they never drink or use other drugs? If people you know don't get high after smoking a whole joint..what does that say. I quess my problem is most people don't think...take a step back and look at the big picture...Is it alright for kids to watch the parents get high? or deal with them being stoned?

[The_Dave]

I don't think that is the point he's trying to make!

You are correct Mutt.

[bluejay]

I was a widow at 39 years old with 4 children at home after my husbands death I had no money coming in for weeks and I had to go to social services for help.The help I was about to receive was almost 400 and when my widows pension was to start in a few weeks it was to be taken out of my 696 a month what I was receiving for 4 children at the time in 1999.I told them to stick it ,far as I;m concerned there a too many people abusing the system I know a few that have been on it for many years now they recive more than I do in a month .I have 1 child orphaned and myself we get 586 a month ! so tell me how the government works here and who gets the most help.They need too alot of them get off their butts and get a job like we all have too.!!!

[The_Dave]

I was a widow at 39 years old with 4 children at home after my husbands death I had no money coming in for weeks and I had to go to social services for help.The help I was about to receive was almost 400 and when my widows pension was to start in a few weeks it was to be taken out of my 696 a month what I was receiving for 4 children at the time in 1999.I told them to stick it ,far as I;m concerned there a too many people abusing the system I know a few that have been on it for many years now they recive more than I do in a month .I have 1 child orphaned and myself we get 586 a month ! so tell me how the government works here and who gets the most help.They need too alot of them get off their butts and get a job like we all have too.!!!

I would bet a million dollars bluejay that you would not have minded taking a drug test if it meant better conditions and more money for your family at this time of need for you.

[suesguy]

I personally, do not see the harm in a drug test. If you are just using the system for temporary assistance to get back on your feet...what have you to fear from peeing in a bottle? If you are just a 3rd gen recipient milking us for drugs, drinking and gambling money...get your hand out of my paychecks!

[bluejay]

you got that right The_Dave !!!

[mizunderstood]

MezMari
A single mother with 1 child gets 830 a month, plus baby bonus. So 1200. To live on your own with that would be nearly impossible. Single moms are allowed an income of 200 a month that doesnt get counted in with their earnings.

Are you sure that that rate is correct because I know when I was on it last year for 2 months we as a family (2 adults 2 kids) only got 848 a month. For 4 of us. plus family allow.
Anyways I partially agree with the daves orginal post that there should be drug testing done on "lifers" I think that after a certain amount of time on assistance (unless they are on disability or sickness or something like that) they should be required to go through some hurdles in order to be allowed to keep getting their checks. Whether it be drug testing, volunteer work, monthly meetings or whatever. But we all know that would mean more work for the already overloaded workers. Also I believe that people on assitance should be visited at least 1-2 times a year (unannounced) to make sure that they don't have someone living there that is not allowed. etc. I think that the welfare system as it is is horrible. I see it every day down where i live peolpe just refuse to work because it is easier to stay at home than go out and work. just my opinion. thanks.
p.s. the 200 a month income they are allowed to make wihtout it being deducted from their checks does NOT include child support. Child support is deducted dollar for dollar.

[girdy]

I'm not sure that a focus on the users is going to progress things very far. If there is an easy supply of cheap drugs and scum getting rich selling them, they're always going to find people with poor enough judgement to give them a try and get subsequently hooked.

IMO if we had far more drastic punishments against dealers and growers/chemists, it would drive the cost of a fix to $1,000, and we'd have a lot fewer people on drugs because none of them would be able to afford to get started in the first place.

[The_Dave]

I personally, do not see the harm in a drug test. If you are just using the system for temporary assistance to get back on your feet...what have you to fear from peeing in a bottle? If you are just a 3rd gen recipient milking us for drugs, drinking and gambling money...get your hand out of my paychecks!

suesguy gets the point. What is the harm, I would gladly do it to better provide my family with a temporary hand UP.

[The_Dave]

[QUOTE= Child support is deducted dollar for dollar.[/QUOTE]



As It should be!!

[orange]

I'm not sure that a focus on the users is going to progress things very far. If there is an easy supply of cheap drugs and scum getting rich selling them, they're always going to find people with poor enough judgement to give them a try and get subsequently hooked.

IMO if we had far more drastic punishments against dealers and growers/chemists, it would drive the cost of a fix to $1,000, and we'd have a lot fewer people on drugs because none of them would be able to afford to get started in the first place.

girdy makes excellent points.

Also, 2 other important factors are that it would cost a lot to do all this drug testing, and that it would also increase the crime rate after some druggies lose their income assistance and try to steal money to get a fix.

And even if drug testing was implemented, it should only be for people who have been on assistance for say at least 2 straight years (or 3 years out of 5, etc.). A shorter timeframe would too demeaning and disheartening to people who may be legitimately seeking work. And the longer timeframe helps save taxpayer money by reducing testing costs.

I also agree with suesguy's comment that it shouldn't be done on people with legitimate health problems.

But as girdy said, the scum who sell the drugs are probably a more effective target.

[mizunderstood]

The_Dave
[quote= Child support is deducted dollar for dollar.[/QUOTE]
As It should be!!

I agree it is an income so it should be deducted dollar for dollar but how come they are allowed to work and make 200 a month that is not deducted from their checks?
<!-- / message -->

[lizard_lover]

Ok...so you all have good points. Things that would be great, but in reality, probably will never be done.
I will say, I smoke a joint every now and again. At my place, not at work, and not before work. I do not smoke cigarettes, and I do not drink at all. I pay out 500$ or so a month in taxes (not a lot I know, but still, that is 2 months rent for me (i room with my bf)) If I was on assistance, I probably would quit smoking pot because of bills, but if I have extra money, and all bills, food, etc...is paid, yeah sure I will, but that is it. I try to think I am responsible enough with it...and NEVER EVER around kids. I am not saying it is right, I know it is not, it is a drug, but I could be doing worse, and at least I am responsible with it...

[leeleemom]

I know, I was answering both in one post. As far as families being torn apart...what about going to jail? Having a criminal record, which impacts you ability to find employment? How many pot smokers do you know that just smoke pot?, they never drink or use other drugs? If people you know don't get high after smoking a whole joint..what does that say. I quess my problem is most people don't think...take a step back and look at the big picture...Is it alright for kids to watch the parents get high? or deal with them being stoned?

You are twisting what I said. It is not ok for kids to watch their parents get high!! What I am saying is that most people on here seem to be focusing in on "weed" as the problem. The same thing could be said about alcohol. Which in my opinion is worse then weed. As far as I know you can't go to jail for smoking a joint. You can only get in trouble with the law if you have an ounce(i think). Which would most likely mean you are selling.I realize weed is illegal and alcohol isn't. Something else I don't get!

[orange]

The_Dave

As It should be!!

I agree it is an income so it should be deducted dollar for dollar but how come they are allowed to work and make 200 a month that is not deducted from their checks?
<!-- / message -->

I think that's a good policy.

The $200 amount that is not clawed back is like a bonus for working, so it acts as an incentive to join the workforce, which helps maintain and develop skills. And then hopefully income assistance won't be needed at all if the employment situation continues to improve.

[mizunderstood]

i agree with u orange that it SHOULD be an incentive, but I know tons of people that only work JUST ENOUGH to make that 200 a month"bonus" and be able to keep their checks and their working income... But the original post was a good one, if only there was a way to impliment it.

[suesguy]

Alright, did a little research..single mother..1 child is around $739.00 per month, married or commonlaw is around $1100 Plus child tax benefit, plus health card, plus heating allowance, plus $200 allowed income, plus Rent Supplement Program for starters...why would they work? I wonder how much that translates into in monetary terms? lets see average $1700 a month(40 HRS PER WEEK) (2 kids)..that comes to about $10.62 cents per hour for sitting around...hmm..beats minimum wage eh?

So, it is not just the cheque my taxes pay for, but medical expenses, heating, supplemented rent...I wonder what else?...test them, every day...all the time...

[mizunderstood]

suesguy whre did u find all this info? i am interested in finding out why it is so high...

[suesguy]

All on the NB government websites...start here: http://app.infoaa.7700.gnb.ca/gnb/Pub/EServices/ListServiceDetails.asp?ServiceID1=8655&ReportType1=All

[mizunderstood]

Wow. Amazing.. Now I understand the attraction to assistance.

SCHEDULE A



<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>UNIT SIZE</TD><TD>EXTENDED
BENEFITS
PR0GRAM
</TD><TD>TRANSITIONAL
ASSISTANCE
PROGRAM
</TD><TD>INTERIM
ASSISTANCE
PROGRAM
</TD></TR><TR><TD>1 person</TD><TD>$582.00
</TD><TD>$505.00
</TD><TD>$276.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>1 adult, 1 child
(under 19 yrs)</TD><TD>$838.00
</TD><TD>$762.00
</TD><TD>$527.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>2 adults</TD><TD>$855.00
</TD><TD>$778.00
</TD><TD>$527.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>3 persons</TD><TD>$888.00
</TD><TD>$807.00
</TD><TD>$558.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>4 persons</TD><TD>$941.00
</TD><TD>$854.00
</TD><TD>$592.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>5 persons</TD><TD>$994.00
</TD><TD>$901.00
</TD><TD>$626.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>6 persons</TD><TD>$1,047.00
</TD><TD>$948.00
</TD><TD>$660.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>7 persons</TD><TD>$1,100.00
</TD><TD>$995.00
</TD><TD>$694.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>8 persons</TD><TD>$1,153.00
</TD><TD>$1,042.00
</TD><TD>$728.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>9 persons</TD><TD>$1,206.00
</TD><TD>$1,089.00
</TD><TD>$762.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>10 persons</TD><TD>$1,259.00
</TD><TD>$1,136.00
</TD><TD>$796.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>11 persons</TD><TD>$1,312.00
</TD><TD>$1,183.00
</TD><TD>$830.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>12 persons</TD><TD>$1,365.00
</TD><TD>$1,230.00
</TD><TD>$864.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>13 persons</TD><TD>$1,418.00
</TD><TD>$1,277.00
</TD><TD>$898.00
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[mizunderstood]

SCHEDULE B

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>UNIT SIZE</TD><TD>EXTENDED
BENEFITS
PROGRAM
</TD><TD>TRANSITIONAL
ASSISTANCE
PROGRAM
</TD></TR><TR><TD>1 adult, 1 child (under 19 yrs)</TD><TD>$855.00
</TD><TD>$778.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>2 adults</TD><TD>$873.00
</TD><TD>$793.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>3 persons</TD><TD>$905.00
</TD><TD>$824.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>4 persons</TD><TD>$958.00
</TD><TD>$872.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>5 persons</TD><TD>$1,011.00
</TD><TD>$920.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>6 persons</TD><TD>$1,064.00
</TD><TD>$968.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>7 persons</TD><TD>$1,117.00
</TD><TD>$1,016.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>8 persons</TD><TD>$1,170.00
</TD><TD>$1,064.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>9 persons</TD><TD>$1,223.00
</TD><TD>$1,112.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>10 persons</TD><TD>$1,276.00
</TD><TD>$1,160.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>11 persons</TD><TD>$1,329.00
</TD><TD>$1,208.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>12 persons</TD><TD>$1,382.00
</TD><TD>$1,256.00
</TD></TR><TR><TD>13 persons</TD><TD>$1,435.00
</TD><TD>$1,304.00
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[mutt]

We stirred up the hornets nest on this one Dave!! LOL

[suesguy]

I have been talking about this for years...even sent a few letters to the gov...no response was given. All they need now is a pension plan for welfare...oh oh...shouldn't have said that....it will be next...lol

[lizard_lover]

wow, makes me want to quit my full time, 45 hour per week job, keep the 100$ or so spent on transportation to and from work per month, to sit on my lazy rear end and collect other people's hard earned money!

Oh yeah, and we complain, how about this. My boyfriends brother gets between 400$ and 500$ deducted in taxes per pay, and my mother's boyfriend gets 500$-600$ out per pay! What they pay out in taxes combined is almost double my pay!

[mizunderstood]

oh but lizard lover dont forget u need to spit out a couple kids to really make it worthwhile.. lol... JUST JOKING people... but seriosuly why work if you can bring in 1000.00 a month on assistance???

[mizunderstood]

Ok here's what makes me mad... (assuming that I am a single mother with 2 kids) If I go out to work 40 hrs a week. min wage thats 290 a week x 4 weeks a month= 1160 - taxes so lets say 160 taxes a month. so working all day long, all week long all month long I would make 1000.00. Mind you I would have to get a sitter or daycare for my kiddos, (800+a month) spend time away from them, (priceless) pay for a bus (60 a month) or gas in my car, srill pay rent (400 a month) cable, phone, internet (125 a month) food and diapers (300 a month) plus whatever else expenses I might have.... So i am in the hole every month working... Yet I could sit on welfare and not have to pay sitter/daycare, transportation, etc. And still make 900+ a month to do nothing!! How is that fair? how does that encourage people to go out and work? IT DOESNT!

[suesguy]

I have no arguement against the amounts...just the amount of time you can stay on it. Makes it really hard for me to understand why the minimum wage is so low. Penalizing workers?..want you on assistance? If you can average $10.00 bucks an hour on assistance...why work for minimum wage?

[mizunderstood]

Amen! suesguy

[leeleemom]

I have no problem paying taxes to help people on S.A. The question I have is why is it called an assistance program? I inquired on getting a health card from them. I have 3 kids and am on a very limited income and don't have any health plan and I can't afford one. They told me they couldn't "assist" me! I couldn't believe it. I don't make a lot of money. As a matter of fact I would make pretty much the same being on S.A. But then I would not have transportation costs and I would get a health card!!

[mizunderstood]

I think it is going to take a major shock for them (government) to really get the point... If everyone in an area quit their jobs and went on welfare it might just wake them up. Welfare at one time was only a temp thing, and it was not even half of what it is today. My mother told me that when i was a baby (maybe 3 months old) dad lost his job from a shut down at labatts and they had nothing, no diapers, food, milk nothing! So they went to welfare to help them till dad got back on they told them we can give you 20.00! WTF? I think the government needs to drop the rates in half or at least be more selective on who they allow to get a check...

[The_Dave]

The_Dave

As It should be!!

I agree it is an income so it should be deducted dollar for dollar but how come they are allowed to work and make 200 a month that is not deducted from their checks?
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I don't mind this part so much, it gives incentive to get back into the work force. On the other side, some abuse this perk as they will purposely not make over $200 a month.

[The_Dave]

We stirred up the hornets nest on this one Dave!! LOL

And opened a lot of eyes to what has been taking place for years.

[lizard_lover]

really, really, REALLY makes me wanna quit my job now...but i bet that is what they want! MUAHAHAHA lol just kidding....just had a soda...but seriously...that is bad that you can make that much on assistance!

[orange]

I don't think the amounts are unreasonable... $900 per month doesn't buy a whole lot after you count rent and food...

If the amounts were lower, it would cause legitimate recipients to experience unnecessary difficulties.

[orange]

And they still make 900+ a month to do nothing!! How is that fair? how does that encourage people to go out and work? IT DOESNT!

I think it's more based on being a minimum amount to cover the necessities.

Sure, there are leeches who exploit the system, but that's more a problem of people being "lifers" (and not having health reasons for needing it), than it is the monthly amounts.

Plus most people probably hope to make more than $900 per month, and a job is a stepping stone to that. If a person goes and takes the $900/month job now, they can hopefully get a $1500/month (or more) job a few years later, hopefully $2000/m and $3000/m eventually, etc. If a person just takes welfare, they will be stuck at $900/month forever...

[mizunderstood]

I guess my problem is that I go out, work really hard, and make the same amount as someone on assistance. (and I work a heck of a lot harder! I do everything from wiping old peoples bums to cleaning houses etc) 900 a month buys a lot more than nothing which is exactly what they should get for what they work. NOTHING, NOTTA, ZIP ZERO ZILCH! comeon now people u cant tell me that someone NEEDS to be on assistnace for 10 years! They are on assistance becasue they CHOOSE to be. Why should we and the gov't foot the bill so that they can stay at home, drink, smoke, do drugs, make more babies and do nothing in general to contribute to society? I think that the assistance program is great in a way. It helps those of us that need it when something bad happens, it helps you get back on your feet. BUT it does not take 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 years to find a job! Then you wonder why people would rather just sit home and get a big juicy check! Its sooo much easier and its FREE MONEY!

[girdy]

We can't lose track that there are worthy recipients of social assistance, because they are unable to work (serious illness for example) or are in transition (for example a woman with kids leaving an abusive relationship). I wouldn't want people in either of these cases in extra hardship, so making the rate too low may not be the best thing for those who are worthy of our compassion.

Here's what I think. For those who previously worked, make the base benefit a percentage of your previous income for those who were employed up to some sort of maximum which is less than EI, but higher than the rate a never employed SA recipient would get. This employment period calculation needs to have a long term view, presumably the person went on EI if they lost their job. These folks deserve an extra break, they paid with their taxes previously.

For others who are chronically on SA as a lifestyle, decrease the amount of benefit over time. Perhaps just don't raise the rate by the cost of living adjustment as time goes by. There needs to be motivation to get off the system, and at the point where you can clearly make money working, perhaps that's the motivation they need.

[The_Dave]

We can't lose track that there are worthy recipients of social assistance, because they are unable to work (serious illness for example) or are in transition (for example a woman with kids leaving an abusive relationship). I wouldn't want people in either of these cases in extra hardship, so making the rate too low may not be the best thing for those who are worthy of our compassion.

Yes girdy, you are right.

[angelaa]

That was nasty. And what gives you the right to call people Welfare Bums. Didn't your parents teach you to have respect for less fortunate people. Not everyone is on Welfare to take the easy way through life, Some people dont have the precious opportunities or the smarts like you are obviously packing. If you were a fellow employee of mine, I wouldn't want to even know you, let alone work along side of you. Some people are less fortunate than others, and it takes arrogant people like you who would never help a less fortunate person get ahead in life or give them the break that they have been waiting for all their life to better themselves either mentally or financially, maybe you better take your nose out of your big text books long enough to see all the misery going on in the world among people living in poverty. Social assistance cheques only come out once a month, the rest of the month these people have to live with themselves for spending money on their addictions and live with the consequences of degrading themselves to handouts and begging. The System isn't so easy to get yourself out of as you think. And just for the record I work full time and I am not on assitance, and I always take every opourtunity to help someone less fortunate than myself. by the way don't you get money back that you have paid into income tax, I do. If this is all you have to complain about, you must live a very DULL life.<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">
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[mizunderstood]

QUOTE angelaa
That was nasty. And what gives you the right to call people Welfare Bums.

angelaa who are you referring to in your post? Because if it is me NO WHERE did i call anyone a welfare bum. and I do not believe anyone else used that term either. (As far as I can remember)And yes my mother did raise me with respect for the unfortunate, but there is a difference between someone who is down on their luck for a time, and someone that does not even try to make a life for themselves or their families.

QUOTE angelaa
Social assistance cheques only come out once a month, the rest of the month these people have to live with themselves for spending money on their addictions and live with the consequences of degrading themselves to handouts and begging.


Maybe if they went out and got a job they would not have to go all month long with no money. Most jobs I know of pay every week or every 2 weeks.

QUOTE angelaa
The System isn't so easy to get yourself out of as you think.

Speaking from someone who has been on it (2 months 5 years ago and 2 months a year ago) It is as easy to get off as you want it to be. Even if it takes a few months to get back to work full time and make money at least TRY! What we are talking about here are the people that DONT EVEN TRY to get off it. THe people that make a living off welfare and wait around for that "PAYCHECK" on the first of the month.

QUOTE angelaa
by the way don't you get money back that you have paid into income tax, I do. If this is all you have to complain about, you must live a very DULL life.


AS a matter of fact I do not get money back at tax time. But what does that have to do with this debate? And we have a right to complain or discuss and rant and rave however we want to here on isaintjohn. WE all want to discuss the problems facing our city and the country in general, and if this happens to be a hot topic then so be it.
Thank you.

[angelaa]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">sorrybuddy I was replying to the last post on page one, I thought it ended there. (suesguy 9 hours ago)
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[mizunderstood]

Look what you did The_Dave! lol

[angelaa]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">what makes it frustrating is the fact that when you get a job and you are on sa and you are allowed to make 200 dollars as a single person and after that they deduct dollar for dollar anything above that so for 485.00 dollars worth of work some people figure why work more than 200 dollars worth for nothing. once you add up the expenses of holding a job full time, transpotation costs,lunches, timmies. it costs you more to go to work.
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[trinity]

[hauls thread back from wherever it went]
If you look at it from the point of view that people on assistance with kids, their "job" is raising the kids, so yeah, test them randomly for ILLEGAL substances. The simple threat of random testing might scare some of them into avoiding casual usage. I do support limits on length of time you can be on assistance. It really should not be a lifetime plan.

[Cherry Pop]

Kind of makes you go HMMMMMMM

I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my
taxes as it sees fit. In order to earn that pay cheque, as I work on
a rig site or a Fort Mac construction project, I am required to pass a random urine test, with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare cheque because I have to pass one to earn it for them...?? Please understand - I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their arse drinking beer & smoking dope. Could you imagine how much money the provinces would save if people
had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance cheque...? Please
pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all
will pass it along though, because something has to change in this
country, and soon...!

Yet again. Well my two cents are - You choose where you work - if you don't want to do a urine test than work somewhere that doesn't require you to do one! I don't choose to be on income assistance so why should I be required to do a urine test. Although I would gladly take one to prove not everyone on income assistance drinks and does drugs. Once my test came back clean you are darned right I would then file a compliant that my human rights were violated! Man I'm so sick of these pathetic thread about putting people on income assistance down. Don't you people have anything better to do? Oh I forgot you are all at work, working so hard aka playing on the computer, making money while doing it. Meanwhile someone like me is sitting at home on my butt is it because I have health problems that make it difficult to even leave my house. Yeah get a life people!!!

[lizard_lover]

but we are not talking about people like you cherry_pop, we are talking about the people who are perfectly healthy, but chose to be on assistance instead of get a job.

[suesguy]

That was nasty. And what gives you the right to call people Welfare Bums. Didn't your parents teach you to have respect for less fortunate people. Not everyone is on Welfare to take the easy way through life, Some people dont have the precious opportunities or the smarts like you are obviously packing. If you were a fellow employee of mine, I wouldn't want to even know you, let alone work along side of you. Some people are less fortunate than others, and it takes arrogant people like you who would never help a less fortunate person get ahead in life or give them the break that they have been waiting for all their life to better themselves either mentally or financially, maybe you better take your nose out of your big text books long enough to see all the misery going on in the world among people living in poverty. Social assistance cheques only come out once a month, the rest of the month these people have to live with themselves for spending money on their addictions and live with the consequences of degrading themselves to handouts and begging. The System isn't so easy to get yourself out of as you think. And just for the record I work full time and I am not on assitance, and I always take every opourtunity to help someone less fortunate than myself. by the way don't you get money back that you have paid into income tax, I do. If this is all you have to complain about, you must live a very DULL life.<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">
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Well, just so you know. I quit school in grade 8 to become a fisherman. That lasted a few years( until i was 18 or so) then I went on and worked every job from janitor, roofer, cleaning gurry tanks(fish guts) you name it, for myself and my family!! I went back to school at the tender age of 34 so i could provide better for my family. I did 2 and a half years upgrading at NBCC while working...then went to NBCC Woodstock and got a diploma in Communication Arts. I have been on SA for a short period of time. I am not talking about using the system to help better yourself...been there , done that. What I'm talking about are those that I see and hear every DAY. People who CHOOSE not to work, not that they can't...those are the welfare bums I speak of and as far as I'm concerned that is what they are..they bum off you and me and every other working Canadian so they don't have to work. I didn't use the system so I could sit on my arse, so I feel that since I KNOW it can be done it gives me a little latitude in this matter. Have a nice day.

[sanstu]

Just thought I'd throw in a quote (from another thread) from The Dave " the real problem is someone being toooooooooo darn nosey."

I think that says it all!

[The_Dave]

Just thought I'd throw in a quote (from another thread) from The Dave " the real problem is someone being toooooooooo darn nosey."

I think that says it all!

Boy that is a good one, sheesh ya got me there. Imagine being too concerned over where our hard earned tax dollars are going or worrying whether someone keeps their baby up to late. Imagine, boy do I ever have a lot of nerve.

[mizunderstood]

LOL the dave!!

[sanstu]

Boy that is a good one, sheesh ya got me there. Imagine being too concerned over where our hard earned tax dollars are going or worrying whether someone keeps their baby up to late. Imagine, boy do I ever have a lot of nerve.

Wow , that's witty! Wealth grand enough to fund all social programs and a sense of humour. Doesn't get much better than that!:rolleyes: Say what you mean and mean what you say! It doesn't work both ways! It is not your "right" to dictate how someones money is spent. Just so ya know, tax dollars go towards funding many objectional areas of society.(I don't recall asking you to be concerned over where my considerable tax dollars go)

In my opinion, it is not concern as to where tax funding goes, you want to be able to tell a specific group of people how to spend this money! That, my friend, is none of your business!

[leeleemom]

Maybe we should all think of this another way. Maybe instead of getting all upset at the people receiving S.A. we should be focusing on the program itself and how it is run.Just a thought.....

[suesguy]

Wow , that's witty! Wealth grand enough to fund all social programs and a sense of humour. Doesn't get much better than that!:rolleyes: Say what you mean and mean what you say! It doesn't work both ways! It is not your "right" to dictate how someones money is spent. Just so ya know, tax dollars go towards funding many objectional areas of society.(I don't recall asking you to be concerned over where my considerable tax dollars go)

In my opinion, it is not concern as to where tax funding goes, you want to be able to tell a specific group of people how to spend this money! That, my friend, is none of your business!

Sorry but. if I earn the money I feel I have the right to speak over where that money is spent. Taxes are supposed to be for infrastructure, health, fire, police and social programs. If you found out they were wasting our tax dollars by using police vehicles (or ambulances) off duty for personal reasons, I'm sure you would not like it. I see no difference. Sure there are problems with the system but that in no way excuses someone for taking advantage of it. Imagine the healthcare system we could have etc...if all those millions of dollars were not being sponged away and instead the abusers were working and having taxes taken from them.

[Cherry Pop]

Just a question for those who think they should be able to tell people on income assistance what to spend the money on that they receive - Would you want your employer telling you what you can and can't spend your money on? After all it is the company that is paying the money to you - wasn't it their money to begin with?!

[mommyd]

If you can average $10.00 bucks an hour on assistance...why work for minimum wage?

because while there are lots of ppl who don't give a crap about anything but themselves, there are even more ppl that are honorable and would never think of going on welfare just so they wouldn't have to work.

[suesguy]

Just a question for those who think they should be able to tell people on income assistance what to spend the money on that they receive - Would you want your employer telling you what you can and can't spend your money on? After all it is the company that is paying the money to you - wasn't it their money to begin with?!

Yes but, you see (here is the key) I WORK for the money my company gives me...I provide a service that benefits them by creating revenue. They don't say "oh, you don't want to work....well have some money anyway" If they did then yes, they should be albe to tell me to pay my bills and take care of my kids.

[sunnyj]

I agree with thedave..... we should have something in place to stop the welfare bums from abusing our hard earned tax dollars.....

Cherrypop... big difference here..... when I go to work, I EARN my money, and earn the right to spend it how I please ( that is of course, after I give money to the people that are too lazy to get a job ). When people DO NOT work, they DO NOT earn money.... they are given handouts, which are funded by those who DO work.... I really think something should be done about all of those who abuse the system... Why would it be a big deal to have to pass a urine test? The only people that should offend are those who are abusing the money that the TAXPAYERS give them...

Things would be a lot simpler if our tax dollars went into the welfare system differently... If the " recipients " had the rent paid by the system.. had utlities paid by the system... and had necessary groceries paid for by the system.... then just give them a couple of bucks.. there.. all the necessities are taken care of, and they have a couple of bucks sitting in the pocket.... anything they need, call the welfare office and have it approved.... I think maybe that would stop the welfare day rush at the liquor store, the major lineups at all the take outs and shorten our wait for delivery!

[01_neon_rider]

I dont come on this site as much as i used to but it seems that everytime i do the same ppl are cryin about the same old news..blah blah ppl on welfare blah blah there is nothing any of us can do about what ppl chose to do with THEIR money yes THEIR money...once u pay into taxes it is not ur money anymore they get a cheque every month that comes in their name...and really who is to say that if someone gets somthin like 700 dollars a month or sothat they didnt pay their bills and so on and spend the left over money on whatever they choose to...so instead of ALWAYS posting rude comments on this site and gettin everyone feathers in a ruffle...why dont u start writing to ur MLA or premier and suggest somthin like food stamps if ur soo worried about it??And as for takin urine tests so maybe they arent doing drugs what does that mean they couldnt be puttin all the money into VLT's?The way i see it is that ive personally never seen someone sit and smoke four or five hundred dollars worh of weed in one sitting and i have seen the money put into VLT's which goes right back to the government.

[sunnyj]

have written and spoken to mla's and mp's about this issue. It is super annoying that I can work my butt off and in the end have to pay for someone else to sit on the couch... frustrating that I am sitting here on an old second hand computer because I am not as FORTUNATE as some of those on WELFARE, and do not have the EXTRA money to purchase a newer one....

[01_neon_rider]

BOO HOO i dont have a brand new computer, car, house or anything for that matter either and i make good money but i dont use every free second i have to complain about others

[Cherry Pop]

Yes but, you see (here is the key) I WORK for the money my company gives me...I provide a service that benefits them by creating revenue. They don't say "oh, you don't want to work....well have some money anyway" If they did then yes, they should be albe to tell me to pay my bills and take care of my kids.

Part of the problem with your statement is not everyone on income assistance "doesn't want to work" some of us can't. Sorry I don't think anyone should tell me what or where I can spend that money. I don't drink or smoke or do drugs! If I have $20 left after all my bills are paid, food bought, etc, than I should be able to take that $20 and spend it on my daughter on whatever she wants that she could get for $20 and SORRY but nobody has the Right to tell me that I can't. I use to work fulltime than went to college and worked 2 part time jobs. I've paid my taxes and now that I'm in the situation I'm in well I'm sure I paid more taxes than what I've received on Income assistance. Also I would like to know who on income assistance is making about $10.00 if they were working for their check because I can guarantee that I'm not. Something you should all know about income assistance is not everyone gets the same rate. Some get a little more and some get extra for heat. Depends on their situation. Anyhoo, I'm done with this thread. I do everything right in my situation than come on here to a bunch of judgemental people who have no idea what they are talking about. If you haven't lived it, you just don't know, period, end of story!! You can sit and watch and hear about other people but you have no idea what is really going on in their life until you live it!

[01_neon_rider]

Well said cherry pop!:D

[suesguy]

I dont come on this site as much as i used to but it seems that everytime i do the same ppl are cryin about the same old news..blah blah ppl on welfare blah blah there is nothing any of us can do about what ppl chose to do with THEIR money yes THEIR money...once u pay into taxes it is not ur money anymore they get a cheque every month that comes in their name...and really who is to say that if someone gets somthin like 700 dollars a month or sothat they didnt pay their bills and so on and spend the left over money on whatever they choose to...so instead of ALWAYS posting rude comments on this site and gettin everyone feathers in a ruffle...why dont u start writing to ur MLA or premier and suggest somthin like food stamps if ur soo worried about it??And as for takin urine tests so maybe they arent doing drugs what does that mean they couldnt be puttin all the money into VLT's?The way i see it is that ive personally never seen someone sit and smoke four or five hundred dollars worh of weed in one sitting and i have seen the money put into VLT's which goes right back to the government.


Again, for the hundreth time, we are not talking about ALL SA recipients etc..just those that abuse the system. what you and other fail to understand is that if I refused to pay taxes, it is a crime. If we all decided not to pay taxes, waht would the abusers of the system do then?..so you see it it all of us that work that directly support those that don't.That money (there were no taxes until WW1) is to provide the public with health care, roads, etc..not for those who WILL not get a job. You see, anyone who CANNOT work, I have no issues with.

[beachnut]

i am just curious as to why there ALways seems to be a thread dedicated to this topic. Everyone always says the same things over and over. Everyone's fighting. No one ever discusses this issue, all that is ever done is arguing. Why do you all waste your time saying the same thing you said on the last thread about this?

[sunnyj]

What if we all quit working and went on welfare? OMG this is getting insane! Those of you on assistance because of a health problem or because you are in a transitional stage, WE ARE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT YOU! It is the people that are able to work, but yet are too lazy that we are complaining about! Thats right, cherrypop, you should be able to spend your extra 20.00 on your daughter! And you know what? If I didnt' work so many hours to support those on welfare, I would be able to take MY extra $ 10.00 and spend it on MY daughter but guess what? By the time I get home, my daughter is usually asleep, so I dont have the time to find out what it is she likes! Makes it really hard when you just work and work and work to make sure that those who don't want to work will still get paid, and will have all the prescriptions paid and all that! I dont have any medical coverage, so unfortunately when it comes to tax time, the welfare people might not get as much from me this year... been a very expensive year for prescriptions for my young daughter, and seeing as they all have to come out of my pocket, I can use them as a tax deduction....

[01_neon_rider]

Again, for the hundreth time, we are not talking about ALL SA recipients etc..just those that abuse the system. what you and other fail to understand is that if I refused to pay taxes, it is a crime. If we all decided not to pay taxes, waht would the abusers of the system do then?..so you see it it all of us that work that directly support those that don't.That money (there were no taxes until WW1) is to provide the public with health care, roads, etc..not for those who WILL not get a job. You see, anyone who CANNOT work, I have no issues with.
I dont believe i said u should stop or refuse to pay taxes...i think we all get sick of hearing the same thing over and over when there is nothing that can be done...as i said before all this does is creates stress between ppl on the site

[01_neon_rider]

i am just curious as to why there ALways seems to be a thread dedicated to this topic. Everyone always says the same things over and over. Everyone's fighting. No one ever discusses this issue, all that is ever done is arguing. Why do you all waste your time saying the same thing you said on the last thread about this?
That is my point exactly...yet no one chooses to see it that way

[suesguy]

Although I may live in a fantasy world (and think this is still somewhat a free country) We all have the right to voice our opinions. And it is because of people like yourself who say "nothing can be done" that nothing will be done. The first step to any action is discussion and awareness. There are a lot of people out there who were not aware how much SA recipients recieve...now they know and it upset some people...good!! No one is forcing you to post here,or even read the posts, that is your choice(Ain't Freedom Great?) So if things on here offend you in any way...voice your opinion too,(or not) but so will I and others. Have A nice day.

[FutureChief88]

i believe that Obviously, people with special circumstance, should have different clauses, and people that are just having children should be allowed to be on it for a year. (ie: maternity Leave) After that either get a job to HELP support yourself or go to school. As long as you are doing something with yourself.. Its should be fine. For those out there who have had children, are not doing ANYTHING with themselves, and those people who Dont feel like working.. There should be "WORK FARE" They have it in Toronto.. and if it can work there then it should be able to work here. You get the SAME cheque you would get on assistance.. but you work for the government for it. U dont work.. U dont get it. It would give people MUCH more incentive to go out and get a similiar (or better) job paying more money.. And it wouldn't give people a chance to sit home and be Lazy.. For those who do.

Cherry_pop.. I agree with MOST of what you have said. I was on welfare about 3 years ago.. and i was on it for 2 years.. When the doctor put me out because of a high risk pregnancy.. i hadnt worked long enough to get MAT leave.. so i went on welfare.. After my daughter was born i went and got my high school diploma and took a course in college. Now i have a good job.. and whatnot.. But i still receive help from assistance.. For daycare Benefits.. I dont see it as wrong.. because it is there for people who need it.
And as someone said before.. If there are concerns with the way people are living on Welfare, then they should change the system.. Dont start Judging the people.. Even if they do sit on their Arses. They are enabling people.. Thats it

[FutureChief88]

Although I may live in a fantasy world (and think this is still somewhat a free country) We all have the right to voice our opinions. And it is because of people like yourself who say "nothing can be done" that nothing will be done. The first step to any action is discussion and awareness. There are a lot of people out there who were not aware how much SA recipients recieve...now they know and it upset some people...good!! No one is forcing you to post here,or even read the posts, that is your choice(Ain't Freedom Great?) So if things on here offend you in any way...voice your opinion too,(or not) but so will I and others. Have A nice day.

Ummm, I hope that wasnt pointed at me.. Because i didnt say "Nothing could be done".. There are lots that could be done..
And no part of it offended me. You are right.. Freedom of speech.. and people need to realize that not everyone is going to feel the same way.

I just think that it is rediculous that most everyone is on here Bashing (some) people who are on welfare. Not every situation is the same.. and to voice awareness and whatnot.. you do NOT need to judge people and put them down. IMO

I dont think it matters what these people make on welfare, i think that they should just worry about what is being done to prevent "lifers"

When i was on it. I never got heating supplements, I was on a list for "housing" for over a year and Still never heard anything from them. So these perks you guys speak of were non-existant to me. These people are NOT living the life of luxury. Not that i am agreeing with people sitting home on welfare.. But if they dont have any kids they only get like 260 a month.. Or at least they did when i was on it.

[01_neon_rider]

No i am the one who said THEY cant do anything not nothing can be done we as tax payers (yes i have a good paying job and still defend as some people call them welfare bums) can do nothing about it the only thing that bothers me is ppl who are nieve enough to think that ppl on welfare make $10 an hour when that is soo not true...i have paid as much as $300 a pay into taxes and the way i see it is there is nothing i can do about that...if tax dollars didnt go to welfare all of these ppl would just complain about what it did go to..There, now i have voiced my oppinion Have a good day yourself:)

[The_Dave]

No i am the one who said THEY cant do anything not nothing can be done we as tax payers (yes i have a good paying job and still defend as some people call them welfare bums) can do nothing about it the only thing that bothers me is ppl who are nieve enough to think that ppl on welfare make $10 an hour when that is soo not true...i have paid as much as $300 a pay into taxes and the way i see it is there is nothing i can do about that...if tax dollars didnt go to welfare all of these ppl would just complain about what it did go to..There, now i have voiced my oppinion Have a good day yourself:)

Deleted remark by The_Dave

[mizunderstood]

I think we (husband and I) will just quit our jobs and go on welfare. Why not. They will give us a "paycheck" each month. I would get my full family allowence. I would get health benefits, I would get my schooling paid for. AND I would get to be home with my babies full time like a mom should be! Think I will tell hubby to quit his job and I will too and we'll call welfare tomorrow. And I am not worried about the drug tests cause we don't do it. CAN"T AFFORD IT working.. Maybe I can on assistance.... 958.00 a month to do nothing... pretty sweet!
Just so you all know I am not serious, I could not, would not do this.
Cherry pop, I don't think anyone is intending on insulting you. You are one of the ones that we want to recieve the help. And to answer your question no I would not like my EMPLOYER to tell me how to spend my PAYCHECK. There is a difference... I work for a PAYCHECK, people on assistance that should not be DO NOT WORK for their PAYCHECKS

[01_neon_rider]

I think we (husband and I) will just quit our jobs and go on welfare. Why not. They will give us a "paycheck" each month. I would get my full family allowence. I would get health benefits, I would get my schooling paid for. AND I would get to be home with my babies full time like a mom should be! Think I will tell hubby to quit his job and I will too and we'll call welfare tomorrow. And I am not worried about the drug tests cause we don't do it. CAN"T AFFORD IT working.. Maybe I can on assistance.... 958.00 a month to do nothing... pretty sweet!
Just so you all know I am not serious, I could not, would not do this.
Cherry pop, I don't think anyone is intending on insulting you. You are one of the ones that we want to recieve the help. And to answer your question no I would not like my EMPLOYER to tell me how to spend my PAYCHECK. There is a difference... I work for a PAYCHECK, people on assistance that should not be DO NOT WORK for their PAYCHECKS
Just so you knowpeople on assistance have to pay to go to school juast the same as the rest of us...when i had my daughter and CHOSE to get assistance for a while so i coiuld go to school (which i am no longer on) I had to get a canada student loan like everyone else which i am in debt for 10,000 because of and it is me who has to work to pay it back...just thought id clear that up:D

[mizunderstood]

QUOTE neon rider
Just so you knowpeople on assistance have to pay to go to school juast the same as the rest of us...when i had my daughter and CHOSE to get assistance for a while so i coiuld go to school (which i am no longer on) I had to get a canada student loan like everyone else which i am in debt for 10,000 because of and it is me who has to work to pay it back...just thought id clear that up:D


You are partially right. They require you to apply for student loans and such first. however if you already have student loans or if you cant get a student loan then welfare/HRDC will pay for your education.
They will pay half your tuition, all your books, materials, transportation, daycare etc while you are in school. I am pretty sure I would rather pay 5000 a year for my course than 10,000 PLUS the extra expenses. I went to university, I have 45,000+ in student loans that I am working to pay off. I cannot get another student loan to go back to school so maybe just maybe i will go through welfare and get them to pay for my schooling.

[01_neon_rider]

qthat may very well be but i paid for my loan my self...and if u cant get another student loan then maybe u should get the government to pay for it and then u can get some of ur hard earnd tax dollars back

[FutureChief88]

well said..

[mizunderstood]

I would love for the governement to pay for me to go to school or even pay a part of the loan that i already have, but unfortunatly because I work I don't qualify for it.

Also just wanted to add that in the US (in certain states) you cannot be on assistance for longer than 3 years. After that time you have to reapply, and explain why you should be entitled to still recieve it.

[sanstu]

This thread has gotten so off topic it's mind boggling! How in the world did drug testing as a condition of employment versus drug testing for income assistance become "we haven't bashed welfare bums this month!"
Most people whom have posted receive (or will receive or have received in the past) some sort of social benefit payment, whether it is HST Credit, CTC, Universal Child Care Credit and Employment Insurance. All of these are hand-outs. Perhaps you could send these hand-outs back to the government.(and no, I do not, nor have I received any of these credits)
If you actually think your tax dollars cover all of the social programs you access on a yearly basis, think again.
The problems with the Income Assistance Program have very little to do with a cheque that arrives once a month. It encompasses complex and sensitive issues and should be discussed in a manner that is sensitive to all that may read these posts.
It is unfortunate that in this day and age some are continuing to stereo-type people on assistance. Compassion and understanding would go a long way.
Hopefully no one was insulted/hurt by some of the posts on this thread!

BTW, words in caps constitute shouting, not only is it very rude it violates the rules of this site. So, stop shouting people!

[beachnut]

yeah.. if you want to emphasize something use *asterisks* . Pretty sure the terms of service don't say anything about those.

[omyindeed]

Personally I think a little tinkle test wouldn’t hurt anybody.
And to take a quote from Sunnyj…..If I didn’t' work so many hours to support those on welfare, I would be able to take MY extra $ 10.00 and spend it on MY daughter but guess what? By the time I get home, my daughter is usually asleep, so I don’t have the time to find out what it is she likes! Makes it really hard when you just work and work and work to make sure that those who don't want to work will still get paid, and will have all the prescriptions paid and all that! I don’t have any medical coverage, so unfortunately when it comes to tax time, the welfare people might not get as much from me this year... been a very expensive year for prescriptions for my young daughter, and seeing as they all have to come out of my pocket, I can use them as a tax deduction....
<O:p
<!-- / message -->This is where my understanding, compassion along with my utmost respect, lie People that do it everyday.

[mizunderstood]

I appologize for using caps, I was trying to stress certain words.. my bad.. sorry...

[FutureChief88]

This thread has gotten so off topic it's mind boggling! How in the world did drug testing as a condition of employment versus drug testing for income assistance become "we haven't bashed welfare bums this month!"
Most people whom have posted receive (or will receive or have received in the past) some sort of social benefit payment, whether it is HST Credit, CTC, Universal Child Care Credit and Employment Insurance. All of these are hand-outs. Perhaps you could send these hand-outs back to the government.(and no, I do not, nor have I received any of these credits)
If you actually think your tax dollars cover all of the social programs you access on a yearly basis, think again.
The problems with the Income Assistance Program have very little to do with a cheque that arrives once a month. It encompasses complex and sensitive issues and should be discussed in a manner that is sensitive to all that may read these posts.
It is unfortunate that in this day and age some are continuing to stereo-type people on assistance. Compassion and understanding would go a long way.
Hopefully no one was insulted/hurt by some of the posts on this thread!

BTW, words in caps constitute shouting, not only is it very rude it violates the rules of this site. So, stop shouting people!


So you are saying that you have never received the GST cheque that comes out 4 times a year? If so.. Why not. You must either owe something you are not paying or you are not filing your taxes.
If it is because you make too much money then good for you.. Unfortunately some of us may be a little less fortunate.

[t-bone]

oh that ---- disturber dave is up to his old ways!!
he comes on here and complains about his tax dollars funding the $1000 check a family of four gets to "live" on for a month. i can't imagine that many people in their right mind would chose that lifestyle for themselves or their children. for the people that do, well i am sure the good people at social services pay taxes too. they wouldn't want to see their tax dollars wasted anymore than anyone else. i am sure they are doing everything they can to stop abuse.
speaking of abuse and wasted tax dollars, how about those Irvings??? they are the biggest welfare bums around. the $1000 that a needy family gets is nothing compared to the tax dollars these billionaires get! that comes out of our pockets too! maybe we should test their pee for caviar and lobster!

[sanstu]

So you are saying that you have never received the GST cheque that comes out 4 times a year? If so.. Why not. You must either owe something you are not paying or you are not filing your taxes.
If it is because you make too much money then good for you.. Unfortunately some of us may be a little less fortunate.


I file my taxes and no, I don't owe anything, to anyone! No I don't receive any of the monthly or quarterly hand-outs (social benefits) that tax dollars help to fund! As I said to the people that are so offended by the social benefit programs, send back the monies you receive, plain and simple. My point was there are many , many social programs and many people that receive said monies. Income Assistance is but one program and I don't feel there is a need to hold a once a month bashing party!

[The_Dave]

I file my taxes and no, I don't owe anything, to anyone! No I don't receive any of the monthly or quarterly hand-outs (social benefits) that tax dollars help to fund! As I said to the people that are so offended by the social benefit programs, send back the monies you receive, plain and simple. My point was there are many , many social programs and many people that receive said monies. Income Assistance is but one program and I don't feel there is a need to hold a once a month bashing party!

I have not received any of these either. EVER!!!!!!!!

[FutureChief88]

I file my taxes and no, I don't owe anything, to anyone! No I don't receive any of the monthly or quarterly hand-outs (social benefits) that tax dollars help to fund! As I said to the people that are so offended by the social benefit programs, send back the monies you receive, plain and simple. My point was there are many , many social programs and many people that receive said monies. Income Assistance is but one program and I don't feel there is a need to hold a once a month bashing party!


Yes.. You are right..
I agree with you there.
But Everyone that works (who doesnt make too much money) gets gst.
Just curious thats all..

[suesguy]

Why is it when hardworking, taxpaying individuals voice thier opinion on those that choose not to work it is called "bashing". If you are on EI it is only for a short while, then you have to go back to work. If you get a GST/HST cheque it is payback for the excessive taxes on most items you buy. Half the problem is these bleeding hearts that want to hand out money instead of look for solutions. My father always said "you can lead a horse to water but not make him drink" The same for our social saftey net...we can show them work but unfortunately, not make them work...so unequivocally, in random order, with a cool glass of water first... test them. Sports companies test athletes to protect themselves as the althlete is paid with their money.. Social Assitance recepients are paid by me, whether you like it or not,...test them I say. What ever happend to fairness? Would you let a friend live off you for years or just until they get back on thier feet?...get the point yet?

[FutureChief88]

i guess because. just like everything else, You are not them, and you are not in their shoes. I just find it crazy that people have so much time.. (Including myself) to sit and discuss others this way. Seriously do we not have anything better to do. Everyone who doesnt like it should complain .. or do something about it. I personally dont care. My taxes are being taken anyway.. and if it didnt go to social assistance cheques, EI, GST, CCTB, Universal Child Tax Benefit.. or what have you.. It would be going to something else i may not agree with. The idea with taxes was to help out the communities during the time of war, then once they realized they could get free money from people for doing nothing, they kept it going. Seems to me the government is just as bad as these "lifers" we speak of.. LOL

[suesguy]

hey futurechief88...you like free healthcare? how about the roads you drive on?...maybe police protection?....those things come with a price. One I'm willing to pay for. There is a difference...sorry you can't see that.

[FutureChief88]

Yes
Ur right
crappy healthcare.. that because of their neglegence have killed 3 of my friends in the past 2 years.. or the roads that ruin my car when i drive on the.. or the police that would NOT protect me from an ex boyfriend who harassed and stalked me at work.. When he goes to court they throw out the charges because he "says " we are talking again.. the same police that didnt contact me for statements or to appear in court.. Yea.. ur right.. there IS a difference.

Anyway, It doesnt matter.. no need to get all offended. I am just saying that i dont really care where my tax money goes.. Because its going to "go" no metter where it goes. As long as they think they are doing good with it.. I guess thats all that matters..

and what you posted really has nothing to do withthe point i was trying to make.. Which was.. We are worried about "lifers" but again the government is doing the same thing. taking money from people and doing nothing.. If our tax dollarscovered all these roads, healthcare ETC then why are we losing hospitals and why is this country in sooo much debt. I think you are naive as to where your tax dollars Really go..
But again.. There is way too much stress in this world to worry about things like this. If the cancelled SA they would still be taking as much money from you.. it wold just go some where else.. Is the point i was trying to make.

[sanstu]

I have not received any of these either. EVER!!!!!!!!

that's great, however I believe soon you will be!

[The_Dave]

You are right there. It is about time I get SOMETHING back. At least mine will be used for what it is intended for, I promise you that.

[FutureChief88]

You are right there. It is about time I get SOMETHING back. At least mine will be used for what it is intended for, I promise you that.

As i am sure alot of people do use it for what it is intended for.

[FutureChief88]

that's great, however I believe soon you will be!


it boggles me santsu, how you figure you can put the people down who take services offered by the government. As you have said millions of times.. we are taxpayers.. Are we not entitled to SOMETHING?

[suesguy]

Yes
Ur right
crappy healthcare.. that because of their neglegence have killed 3 of my friends in the past 2 years.. or the roads that ruin my car when i drive on the.. or the police that would NOT protect me from an ex boyfriend who harassed and stalked me at work.. When he goes to court they throw out the charges because he "says " we are talking again.. the same police that didnt contact me for statements or to appear in court.. Yea.. ur right.. there IS a difference.

Anyway, It doesnt matter.. no need to get all offended. I am just saying that i dont really care where my tax money goes.. Because its going to "go" no metter where it goes. As long as they think they are doing good with it.. I guess thats all that matters..

and what you posted really has nothing to do withthe point i was trying to make.. Which was.. We are worried about "lifers" but again the government is doing the same thing. taking money from people and doing nothing.. If our tax dollarscovered all these roads, healthcare ETC then why are we losing hospitals and why is this country in sooo much debt. I think you are naive as to where your tax dollars Really go..
But again.. There is way too much stress in this world to worry about things like this. If the cancelled SA they would still be taking as much money from you.. it wold just go some where else.. Is the point i was trying to make.


I agree our sytem is far from perfect but before you complain too much take a look at the countries without these things...How can you say our government does nothing with our taxes? Do you worry about being shot or kidnapped? Do you see the same little boy begging for money for 6 months dead on the street one day? I suggest you open your eyes to the big picture. Go live in Bosnia (like my brother did)..see if you still think we have it so bad here. As for not caring where your tax money goes..ever think that is why the system is as bad as it is at times...? Too many people don't care and that just lets them away with it.

[FutureChief88]

Your right..And i wouldnt want to live in any other country. I do see the big picture.. and i am thankful for the services that we have the work.. But as i said before, if it didnt go to these things.. it would go somewhere else.. they would make a new tax or come up with some other way to spend our money.. Is all i am saying

[girdy]

Your right..And i wouldnt want to live in any other country. I do see the big picture.. and i am thankful for the services that we have the work.. But as i said before, if it didnt go to these things.. it would go somewhere else.. they would make a new tax or come up with some other way to spend our money.. Is all i am saying

Of course the money would probably be spent on other things, like better roads, more doctors, more teachers, better schools. Every government dollar that is wasted, could be and should be put to better use.

[suesguy]

And all I'm saying is they don't just "spend" the money..it goes to provide the necessities for a civil society.

[FutureChief88]

Of course the money would probably be spent on other things, like better roads, more doctors, more teachers, better schools. Every government dollar that is wasted, could be and should be put to better use.


Thank you!

[FutureChief88]

And all I'm saying is they don't just "spend" the money..it goes to provide the necessities for a civil society.


And they do "spend" the money. I dont care where it goes.. they are still spending it..
What about the big scandal a couple of years ago with chretien.. u think that just stopped.. LOL

[The_Dave]

And they do "spend" the money. I dont care where it goes.. they are still spending it..
What about the big scandal a couple of years ago with chretien.. u think that just stopped.. LOL

Ahha, my other favorite subject, Politicians.

[sanstu]

it boggles me santsu, how you figure you can put the people down who take services offered by the government. As you have said millions of times.. we are taxpayers.. Are we not entitled to SOMETHING?

I am not putting anyone down. Read my posts, I have clearly been defending people receiving "social benefits". I was simply pointing out to one person who appears to take great pleasure in bashing a specific group that he/she will in fact be receiving government hand-outs as well!

BTW. The Dave, it's not my business what you spend it on!

[The_Dave]

I am not putting anyone down. Read my posts, I have clearly been defending people receiving "social benefits". I was simply pointing out to one person who appears to take great pleasure in bashing a specific group that he/she will in fact be receiving government hand-outs as well!

BTW. The Dave, it's not my business what you spend it on!

Truth hurts buddy, and it is your business as it is your money too.

[sanstu]

Truth hurts buddy, and it is your business as it is your money too.

Sorry? You are the one that is soooo....... offended by government hand-outs! Since you are sooooo....... socially conscious you could be a person of your word and send your hand-out back! Oh yeah, by the way you're welcome!:rolleyes:


PS. forward my share(of our money) to the local food bank.

[The_Dave]

Sorry? You are the one that is soooo....... offended by government hand-outs! Since you are sooooo....... socially conscious you could be a person of your word and send your hand-out back! Oh yeah, by the way you're welcome!:rolleyes:


PS. forward my share(of our money) to the local food bank.

Food Bank?! And now you not only want me to support the lazy bums, but feed them?! I don't think so. Your share and mine will be going to the children's oncology department at the hospital.

[sanstu]

Food Bank?! And now you not only want me to support the lazy bums, but feed them?! I don't think so. Your share and mine will be going to the children's oncology department at the hospital.

Highly commendable, however you do realize that this might benefit sick children whose parents are "lazy bums"! :eek: Perhaps you could ear-mark your donation so it only benefits children of middle/upper-class parents!:rolleyes: My share can still go there as I don't make distinctions based on class!

[Mandi]

Highly commendable, however you do realize that this might benefit sick children whose parents are "lazy bums"! :eek: Perhaps you could ear-mark your donation so it only benefits children of middle/upper-class parents!:rolleyes: My share can still go there as I don't make distinctions based on class!

I'm pretty sure it's not a 'class' issue he would argue.

[sanstu]

I'm pretty sure it's not a 'class' issue he would argue.


I'm pretty sure I said I don't make distinctions based on class. Quite frankly I couldn't care less what her/his arguement is. I still believe it is wrong to stereo-type a specific segment of society. The threads that bash people on assistance are wrong, and serve no purpose except to inflate the egos(at the expense of others) of a few who believe their meager tax dollars totally fund every social benefit program in Canada, giving them carte blanche to dictate where the receipient spends said benefit.(and when it is pointed out that they will in fact be receiving a social benefit cheque, they get their knickers in a twist!) I say, get over your big bad self and remember, when you least expect it, Karma will sneak up , and bite you on the a$$!

[suesguy]

Class has nothing to do with this issue. I suggest all those that oppose or are upset at us "bashing" ( why is it called that whenever working people point out abuse) spend a little time lower north or south at the end of the month so you can see where your tax dollars go... you may be shocked. I will repeat AGAIN...SA is supposed to help those who need it get back on thier feet financially, not a way of life for generations. I bet the same people who get upset would not let a "friend" mooch off them indefinately(for years)...there comes a time as Neil Young once said. For those that use the system as it is supposed to be..hooray for you..for those that don't...get off my back.

[sanstu]

If you are aware of specific details of abuse then report it! If you are painting every person on assistance with the same brush, then you are stereo-typing! If you are receiving any "Government Social Benefits" send them back!

PS, I don't think Neil Young would have passed a pee test!

[lizard_lover]

Ok...this has gotten way out of hand. I think it may have started off (from all of us who complained) us looking at our pay stubs..seeing the mponey we grossed, and then seeing net pay. It does suck. But then it got out of hand when certain people who are on assistance thoguht we were "bashing" them. I think I speak for us "complainers" when I say we are not bashing those who deserve it...if you have worked, chances are being on assistance is just getting back what you paid out in taxes. If you are ill, or really cannot work, then you most certainly deserve it. We are talking about those who start it before they ever get a job, and stay on it forever. I think we should stop the arguing and snarky remarks, and maybe talk about a way we can get together to find a way to stop "lifers" and make sure the money goes to those who are on assistance and deserve it because they have contributed to it themselves type deal...

[suesguy]

Finally, a voice of reason. I have stated on here many times the same thing...there are those that use the system as designed, and I fully support them. Maybe some investigating reporting (like W5) would focus media attention...then political pressure.

[FutureChief88]

Work Fare.. Im tellin ya.. It would work.. LOL