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lizard_lover
09-06-2007, 10:16 AM
I know from the title you are probably wondering what that means...well....us HUMANS have taken another great step towards defying the rules of nature...now they are taking the egg from an animal, such as a cow, extracting it's nucleus and adding human DNA...here is the article on it, and it was also on the news last night...

"After months of consultation, British regulators have agreed in principle to allow human-animal embryos to be created and used for research.
"Having looked at all the evidence the Authority has decided that there is no fundamental reason to prevent cytoplasmic hybrid research," the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority said in its decision Wednesday.
"However, public opinion is very finely divided with people generally opposed to this research unless it is tightly regulated and it is likely to lead to scientific or medical advancements. This is not a total green light for cytoplasmic hybrid research, but recognition that this area of research can, with caution and careful scrutiny, be permitted."
The ruling is expected to create further controversy about stem cell research, which critics view as a destruction of human life.
The HFEA-sanctioned research would allow the fusion of human-animal embryos, also known as chimeras, to create stem cells.
Stem cells are transmutable, meaning they can be turned into any type of cell. They are used in the treatment of various diseases, such as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, to regenerate tissues.
Continue Article (http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/09/05/hybrid-embryos.html#skip300x250)
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The research focuses on a specific aspect of chimerism that would involve removing the nucleus from animal egg cells and replacing it with human DNA. Scientists would then let the cells to divide for two weeks into about 200 cells and extract stem cells at that time.
Canada opposed to hybrid embryos
"There's nothing like this in Canada," Mick Bhatia, the scientific director of McMaster University's cancer and stem cell biology institute in Hamilton, Ont., told CBCNews.ca. "We're falling so far behind because we don't even have a process in place."
He said he would like to see Canada develop a regulatory body such as the HFEA to push the process forward and to "reach certain milestones on this."
Canada, Australia and the U.S. currently ban the creation of human-animal embryos. However, while in Canada the research is banned outright, the U.S. has only banned federal funding for it, leaving the door open to private-sector and state funding for stem cell research, Bhatia said.
"This isn't an academic spanking," Bhatia said of possible Canadian penalties for breaking the ban. "You're put in jail."
"We're falling so far behind – because we don't even have a process in place."
— Mick Bhatia, McMaster UniversityIt's a critical difference that's allowing U.S. researchers to make stem cell advances and attract top Canadian stem cell researchers while Canada languishes, Bhatia said.
"Fifteen or 20 years from now we're not even going to be able to train enough physicians and researchers to capitalize on the discoveries of others," Bhatia said.
"I think when we're competing and collaborating internationally — it basically puts us in a different room."
Bhatia also predicted a shortage of embryonic stem cells in Canada, as more research is done and the need for certain types of cells goes up.
Two applications currently before HFEA
According to the HFEA, it has received two research licence applications to derive stem cells from embryos created via cloning.
Scientists in Britain applied in 2006 for permission to create human-animal hybrid embryos by injecting human DNA into cows' eggs for stem cell research.
The scientists said the hybrid human-bovine embryos could prove useful in pursuing treatments to prevent Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's, as well as spinal cord injuries, diabetes and arthritis.
"Our licence to them is designed to create cloned human embryonic stem cell lines from individuals who have known genetic forms of a variety of neurological disorders like Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, muscular atrophy and motor neuron disease, Dr. Stephen Minger, director of the stem cell biology laboratory at King's College in London told CBC News. "What we really want to do is create disease-specific cell lines."
While Britain has moved ahead, Bhatia doesn't think Canada's position on hybrid embryos will change anytime soon. He said that when he testified in front of the Senate committee concerning the Canadian Assisted Human Reproduction Act several years ago, follow-up hearings were planned in order to revisit stem cell research.
"Two years have come and gone," he said. "If [the issue] does resonate within Canadian policy, it will be glacial."

mizunderstood
09-06-2007, 01:36 PM
WOOHOO! We really can have monkey men with this!

lizard_lover
09-06-2007, 01:53 PM
That was my initial thought too...but think about it...what are they really planning to do with this? And who gives them the right to play god?

trinity
09-06-2007, 03:15 PM
If you had lost family members to Alzheimers or were currently dealing with loved ones with it or Parkinsons, you might think differently. And one might even argue that God gave us the right to play god, having made us in his image and given us the ability to plan such things.

lizard_lover
09-06-2007, 03:30 PM
Ok...well trinity you are being very judgemental...what makes you think I do not have anyone with Alzheimers or Parkinsons in my family! How dare you...I have a grandfather with alzheimers just to let you know! But I also believe that taking an egg from an animal, taking out the nucleus, and inserting human cells is disgusting and should be stopped now...I am not saying they should not forward research, but doing this is playing god, and will just have terrible outcomes. So please do not just assume things that you know nothing about!!!!

trinity
09-06-2007, 04:20 PM
I have lost friends and family to many things, as have we all, including a 25 yr old friend to diabetes, a 42 year old friend to heart disease, two uncles to alzheimers etc. We have all have stories, none more or less sad than others, just some are more recent than others or current. The only thing I would not condone in the search for cures is hurting living healthy people. Anyway, the question is somewhat moot, they are doing it in other countries; the question is are we lagging behind in Canada. There are many drugs and treatments on the market that have only been approved here and not the USA or GB, and vice versa. The technology and methods have been created, whether or not it should be done is behind us as a species.

ceg
09-06-2007, 10:16 PM
The 'playing god' part doesn't have any meaning with me as I don't believe in any god.

The way I see it, if my grandfather hadn't already died from Alzhiemers and there was a treatment/cure for him I would be all for it. From what I understand it's just continuing stem cell research without having to take the cells from miscarried/aborted fetuses that were donated.

They're pretty much just growing stem cells. What they 'make' will never be a child, will never be born, and from reading that article it sounds like everything will be done in a test tube basically. It's like growing cancer cells to study it. People have been playing with DNA for quite a while and it has been helping improve life.

I sometimes think Canada is behind the times when it comes to medical advancement.

dan j
09-06-2007, 10:40 PM
What are these "terrible outcomes" you talk about LL?

Also, they're not playing anything. They're very serious with what they're doing and expanding scientific research, knowledge, and practice.

MezMaRi
09-07-2007, 11:06 AM
Lizard Lover your taking things to a personal level. I do not think Trinity was saying you do not know anyone. what is wrong with stem cell research???? Maybe you are confused lizard lover. THey arent going to create a human/animal baby. They are ONLY creating stem cells. Which may help in advancements in medicine. I dont think you realize how much testing goes on in europe and russia that you have no idea about. Took a International studies course at university last semester and learned some intense things that are being tested to the east of us.

There is a germ being kept that if let loose in a mall within 24 hours would hit half the people and within 2 weeks it would kill everyone exposed to it. Do you not think a germ like that is a little more dangerous than some stem cells being used strictly to try and cure our ill????? We should trust scientists who have studied for years and years and who know a heck of a lot more about these things than US the general public. let them do their work

mizunderstood
09-07-2007, 11:29 AM
I WANT MY MONKEY MEN!!! HEHE.. sorry just want to lighten things up on here.. It has been way too intense lately..

lizard_lover
09-07-2007, 11:52 AM
The article they put online about it is very vague, if only I could post the clip they had about it on tv...what about the animals huh? What do you think they have to do to an animal to extract all its eggs? Who gave them the right to do that? I believe (and this is my opinion, you are allowed to think otherwise) but our diseases now are more complex than they were 1000 years ago...or so we are taught really...but mother nature so to speak has to keep our population at bay...we created birth control for that reason, china has put that law in place so you can only have 1 child without paying...i just think if we find a cure for one disease, a new one arises, and they seem to get worse each time...i am just saying, this sort of thing should not be played with...let nature take its course. and I also do not believe in god, but i do believe that everything happens for a reason, and that if someone is going to die, they will. if they are dying from cancer and make a miraculous recovery, it is because they were meant to do so...but like I said, these are just my opinions and how I perceive things, and you all can have your own as well...we do not need to argue about it, I just posted the article to get everyone's opinion on it is all....

dan j
09-07-2007, 11:54 AM
my opinion is that your opinion is very weird.

lizard_lover
09-07-2007, 12:08 PM
my opinion is that your opinion is very weird.

and that is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, heck there are people out there that believe that things like beastiality (bad spelling) and stuff like that are ok...it just depends...as long as we do not argue over whos opinion is or is not right, then we should be fine.

suesguy
09-07-2007, 12:30 PM
Scientists estimate that in about 40 to 60 more years, will wil live to an average age of 120-130, most known diseases will be wiped out ,curable or treatable. We will be having "designer" babies and "growing" replacable organs, skin etc..and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Mankind will ALWAYS forge ahead and strive to make money. I guess it depends on your personal views whether this is good or not...imagine this world in 100 years (if we can solve our enviromental issues)...

as far as harming animals, remember one thing (words of Ted Nugent) for every piece of chicken, fish ,pork or cow you eat, there is an animal killed and a gut pile....somewhere , and that is just so we can eat them. Kinda makes research pretty mild eh?

leeleemom
09-07-2007, 02:56 PM
The article they put online about it is very vague, if only I could post the clip they had about it on tv...what about the animals huh? What do you think they have to do to an animal to extract all its eggs? Who gave them the right to do that? I believe (and this is my opinion, you are allowed to think otherwise) but our diseases now are more complex than they were 1000 years ago...or so we are taught really...but mother nature so to speak has to keep our population at bay...we created birth control for that reason, china has put that law in place so you can only have 1 child without paying...i just think if we find a cure for one disease, a new one arises, and they seem to get worse each time...i am just saying, this sort of thing should not be played with...let nature take its course. and I also do not believe in god, but i do believe that everything happens for a reason, and that if someone is going to die, they will. if they are dying from cancer and make a miraculous recovery, it is because they were meant to do so...but like I said, these are just my opinions and how I perceive things, and you all can have your own as well...we do not need to argue about it, I just posted the article to get everyone's opinion on it is all....

I believe everything happens for a reason as well....but "let nature take its course????? No way! So you are saying that if someone is dying from cancer to let nature take its course? You are saying not to get treatment that in many cases today WILL save there life?? I have never known anyone to have cancer and live if not treated. I am sorry LL but I do take this personal. Right now my mother is fighting breast cancer. She is going through a lot with treatment. Without treatment she will die. Letting nature take its course is not an option. She is fighting to live. Everything does happen for a reason and she and I believe good will come out of this. All the research done in the past is giving my mother a chance to overcome this ordeal and be a survivor not another victim. Research is making it so that I will not lose my mother and my children will not lose their grandmother. That is enough reason for me to believe in and support research. Research has saved millions of people over the years and will continue.

lizard_lover
09-07-2007, 03:27 PM
Yes, but with all this research, trillions of dollars, and test animals, people, etc...you are still going to die, one way or another you will die, try and face it. I have a grandfather right now with alzheimers, prostate cancer, melanoma(i think i spelt that wrong) lung cancer, and blood clots...so yeah, i understand treatment. But I mean like I said, everyone has their own opinion, and I am not attacking anyone, or trying to make you feel personally attacked. Would you rather see a loved one wither away over years and years of treatment...through the pain, sickness, needles, catheters, etc... ? Have you ever turned and asked someone taking all this treatment how they feel from this? Probably like crap. I say let nature take it's course, but again, only my opinion. Of course when a loved one is sick, you will be all for research because you do not want to lose that person, but one way or another, someday, it will happen.

Again, I do not mean this as an attack on anyone, I am just stating how I feel on the subject, and you all are allowed to do the same, but do not take it personally. It is not like my opinion is going to stop anything from happening, it will still go ahead one way or another.

MezMaRi
09-07-2007, 04:18 PM
Lizard Lover....weather you believe in god or not this DOES not matter. Although I do believe much in our life is pre determined I do not think that getting cancer is something one should just live with. With research, treatments, etc. we are enabling future generations to be saved from such agony. Simply stating that "we are all going to die anyway" is a pretty unhealthy way to look at things.

People spend most of their natural lives trying to find cures for illness and their work should be rewarded. WITHOUT this treatment they would feel a lot worse lizard lover....cancer is not nature taking its course. AIDS is not nature taking its course. These illnesses were not created by god, or whoever you choose to believe in.

It is not about losing or not losing a loved one. Its about making medical advancements to help the WORLD as a whole. Future generations and things far beyond the imagination. You are more than entitled to your opinion but YOU are a member of the general public and no little/nothing about medical/scientific research and I think until you have read up on more things or taken some classes, read articles you should rethink what you call your opinion.

Opinions are after all like A**holes everybody has them. Its the people with facts and figures that go places in this world. If we listened to every opinion this planet would be founded on nonsense!!!

That is why i believe we all have a place in this world, prostitutes, beggers, doctors, lawyers. We all fit somewhere.

leeleemom
09-07-2007, 05:11 PM
Lizard Lover....weather you believe in god or not this DOES not matter. Although I do believe much in our life is pre determined I do not think that getting cancer is something one should just live with. With research, treatments, etc. we are enabling future generations to be saved from such agony. Simply stating that "we are all going to die anyway" is a pretty unhealthy way to look at things.

People spend most of their natural lives trying to find cures for illness and their work should be rewarded. WITHOUT this treatment they would feel a lot worse lizard lover....cancer is not nature taking its course. AIDS is not nature taking its course. These illnesses were not created by god, or whoever you choose to believe in.

It is not about losing or not losing a loved one. Its about making medical advancements to help the WORLD as a whole. Future generations and things far beyond the imagination. You are more than entitled to your opinion but YOU are a member of the general public and no little/nothing about medical/scientific research and I think until you have read up on more things or taken some classes, read articles you should rethink what you call your opinion.

Opinions are after all like A**holes everybody has them. Its the people with facts and figures that go places in this world. If we listened to every opinion this planet would be founded on nonsense!!!

That is why i believe we all have a place in this world, prostitutes, beggers, doctors, lawyers. We all fit somewhere.


Well put!!!!

ceg
09-07-2007, 10:03 PM
what about the animals huh? What do you think they have to do to an animal to extract all its eggs?
Women have eggs extracted by doctors everyday now. It's not uncommon. I'm going to assume they will do this with animals that are genetically similar to us, which would mean pigs. It's pretty much vacuuming the eggs out. Not the most comfortable thing in the world, but not life threatening or something the animal will never get over. It's not like they have to operate or kill the animal.

And the way I see it, Nature is taking it's course. We as humans are advancing, we're growing and evolving just as Nature does. That's just how we function.

New diseases are not being made because we cured another. New diseases are made because that is Natures true way of functioning. It's constantly changing and adjusting, nothing stays the same. We'll probably never cure every disease but will most likely be able to handle the most dangerous ones.