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user5624
12-16-2006, 01:36 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2006/12/15/nb-erstaff.html

Chinna Dah
12-16-2006, 08:21 AM
scary eh

kaj27
12-16-2006, 09:13 AM
That's what happens when you treat employees like crap....they will crack


I love this quote

If the doctors follow through with their threat, only three remaining physicians would be available to cover Saint John's busiest emergency room.

It should say, Saint John's ONLY ER!!!

Dan_Man
12-16-2006, 09:47 AM
Is there an ER at Saint Joseph's too? I know they're only open certain hours but that's suppose to change next month.
Here's the article concerning the extended hours:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2006/12/12/nb-stjoesopen.html

Mandi
12-16-2006, 06:40 PM
I don't think what they're doing is responsible but I suppose that putting the heat on the government is the best way to get things done. If they actually do get their raises. People are most likely going to die before that happens though.
Really makes me wonder what they're getting paid now.

kaj27
12-16-2006, 08:29 PM
Is there an ER at Saint Joseph's too? I know they're only open certain hours but that's suppose to change next month.
Here's the article concerning the extended hours:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2006/12/12/nb-stjoesopen.html

That isn't an ER though. Its more of a clinic. Sadly.

Dan_Man
12-16-2006, 10:27 PM
According to the article Saint Joe's has an ER....

friskeywhiskey
12-16-2006, 11:26 PM
St. Joe's is an Urgent Care Clinic not an ER

The_Dave
12-17-2006, 05:45 PM
Mandi it is not about money, it is about working conditions and being in a constant state of Code Orange as per the article posted to start this forum.

Cherry Pop
12-17-2006, 06:34 PM
Whether it's about money or working conditions doesn't matter - the fact is the people who will be hurt by this are the sick and injured! As someone who relies on our health care system including the ER this is a scary situation for me! I certainly don't want to die because someone feels they need more money or that the working conditions are so bad since they can't get along with each other so they refuse to work their shifts. Come on we are talking about peoples lives - it's totally nuts!

kaj27
12-17-2006, 07:31 PM
St. Joe's is an Urgent Care Clinic not an ER

Non-Urgent Care...


Urgent Care is an ER, lol.

kaj27
12-17-2006, 07:33 PM
Whether it's about money or working conditions doesn't matter - the fact is the people who will be hurt by this are the sick and injured! As someone who relies on our health care system including the ER this is a scary situation for me! I certainly don't want to die because someone feels they need more money or that the working conditions are so bad since they can't get along with each other so they refuse to work their shifts. Come on we are talking about peoples lives - it's totally nuts!


Its not about people not liking each other or not making enough. Its the fact that they are overworked. There is NO excuse for this. We are the largest city in this crappy province and we have the WORST medical care.

Welcome to hell!

orange
12-17-2006, 08:16 PM
Yeah, it's about working conditions, not money...

So many people here complain about call centre work (and rightfully so, in many cases), due to the pressures involved... and that's just for talking over the phone.

But imagine having to be in a constant state of crisis (code orange... simply due to lack of funding), while trying to give people medical care. And because of that, you're constantly at risk of being sued too (especially in today's lawsuit-happy society).

Working conditions like that are just unacceptable.

tred816
12-17-2006, 09:13 PM
I don't think what they're doing is responsible but I suppose that putting the heat on the government is the best way to get things done. If they actually do get their raises. People are most likely going to die before that happens though.
Really makes me wonder what they're getting paid now.

Looks to me like someone has already died due to the situation as it is now. Perhaps the irresponsible thing is to allow the situation to continue as it is and likely get worse instead of better.

Two years ago, I went to the hospital with severe cramps in my lower side. I was told it was constipation/possibly the flu. Due to this diagnosis, I waited 4 days in severe agony (due to humiliation lol thinking it was constipation) before coming down with a high grade fever and returning to find out that I needed an emergency apendectomy. I can't describe the pain and suffering I went through. Another time after the doctor verified that I was allergic to Sulfa, the nurse gave me 2 pills to tide me over until I could fill a prescription and I later found out it was Sulfa and within 15 minutes was terribly ill. The doctor later called my home when I was pretty much on my death bed. I spent 4 days in the hospital recovering from a severe allergic reaction.

Too many of these mistakes take place due to the staff being overworked. I'm not complaining. I felt and still feel angry over these incidents, but they were understandable mistakes considering the overcrowding. Perhaps people would be safer in the long run if the gov. takes notice of this.

daneast
12-18-2006, 09:12 AM
:( Whenever this country or province hits a financial crisis or issue, it is always healthcare and education that get the cuts along with taxes being raised. After years of each government (Libs and Cons) doing so, we face the situation we are now in. With the taxes taken from our paychecks and on just about everything we purchase, plus lottery tickets and VLT's there is no need of this. NBers, actually Canadians, should never have to be placed in a hallway due to lack of beds, wait 4 to 6 hours to see a doctor and be misdiagnosed. I sympathize completely with all Medical personal. They are there to take care of us but have thier hands tied with red tape, overworked, and stressed out. We see a band-aid thrown on what has become a gaping wound by each subsequent government that acheives power. It is a statement of our society we have allowed politicians to drag us down this far...and a shame medical staff find themselves in this position and have to deal with the reprecussions of trying to find a resolution....no one wins here until someone steps up to the plate and says enough is enough and puts in the money and hard work to remedy it. Shame on our governemnt..shame..:mad:

T4
12-18-2006, 09:49 AM
daneast...I couldn't agree with you more. An example of overwork, and misdiagnosis is this. A few months ago, my aunt passed away. She went to the hospital complaining of pain in her head. She was an alcoholic and was also being treated with medication for her nerves. So, I'm thinking that they may have thought she was going through a bit of a withdrawl, because she hadn't drank in a few days, because of her pain. They didn't do a CatScan, and sent her home with the diagnosis of a "tension" headache. 2 days later she went back with the same complaint only now there was pain in her neck and back. Same diagnosis, "tension" possible "migraine" headache. 3 days later she was dead. Brain anurysim, that burst. It was awful, she was complaining of a headache the day she died, and passed out in her hall. By the time the ambulance got there, she was already gone.

If, IF..someone had only taken a moment to send her for a Catscan, they may have been able to save her life. I'm not saying that they could have, but just "maybe".

Our Government needs to realize that the staff as well as the patients lives are in jeopardy. How many deaths is it going to take before something gets done?

I just can't imagine.

Mandi
12-18-2006, 10:04 AM
Its not about people not liking each other or not making enough. Its the fact that they are overworked. There is NO excuse for this. We are the largest city in this crappy province and we have the WORST medical care.

Welcome to hell!


Move to the US... That would be much closer to hell. Their medical system is scary

rubycshells
12-18-2006, 10:28 AM
We spent a good portion of the night there last night. The doctor (Davidson) and respiratory therapist (Peter) were awesome and had DS settled down and breathing easier. They provided quick effecient care and I thank them for that especially with the working conditions.

I guess the muli million dollar deal given to Molson's a few years ago was more important than feeding that money into our healthcare.

daneast
12-18-2006, 10:58 AM
I wish people would stop comparing us to the USA..There is no comparison. We came up with a healthcare system based on the human right to care...and rightly so..we all deserve to be taken care of if ill ,as a humanitarian (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=humanitarian+&spell=1) right....not if you got the money...stop comparing us to the "great" US of A.

Mandi
12-18-2006, 11:46 AM
Saying our ( as Canadians ) medical system is hell is far from true... I consider myself very lucky to be able to go to the hospital for my 2 year old and end up spending 4 days there and not have to pay a cent. If you want to compair something to hell.... try paying 10 grand for the same treatment.
Sure conditions are bad, but we're not a big city. We should /definately/ have more money provincially for our health care systems and to make our doctors more comfortable, but with the national budget, sadly we're not that important compaired to larger cities. I can't complain about our health care system, I only wish that our government budgeted differently... by oh, say , giving themselves a pay cut, and having better education incentives for doctors, police and firemen. Sure they get paid... an OK amount, but I don't believe they should have to pay for their education at all if they work within our province. Maybe if it weren't for student loans, more people would decide to be doctors and feel some kind of loyalty to stay in N.B. More doctors = less stress?

daneast
12-18-2006, 11:54 AM
oops

daneast
12-18-2006, 12:02 PM
Mandi..how can you not compalin about our current system...have you not been reading these posts? I hope you or someone you care about never has apendicitus or an anuryism..or how abut this one..my mother in las was diagnosed with alzhiemers, put on meds for 2 years..started having siezures, finally did a catscan..discoverd she had 2 tumors on her brain..been growing for those 2 years..of course it was too late...wow not complain.

Mandi
12-18-2006, 12:07 PM
My grandmother died... because of malpractice 4 years ago, and for your information, Daneast, I love her dearly. but in the whole of things. We have it MUCH better than many other people in the world do. I guess I just find it hard to be pessimistic. All these people saying the horrible experiences they had. I have had really bad ones, but also some really great ones. I choose to see more than the negative, and there must be more negative than possitive, because we still have a decent birth / death rate...

T4
12-18-2006, 02:05 PM
I for one am NOT complaining about the negative. I too, have had some very POSITIVE visits to the ER. BUT....with that being said...how many doctor's, nurses, lpn's, respiratory therapists, x-ray technologists, etc....need to suffer from burnout, serious injuries, mental fatigue, etc. Accidents happen, and as a result people suffer. In order to keep the numbers down, sometimes people are over looked for the seriousness of the reason why they are there.

I just beleive that our government needs to do MORE with our dollars as far as healthcare goes. And yes, our doctor's need incentive to stay within our country, our province. Why would they want to work for crap and try to pay back lord know's HOW many dollars in student loans, when they can go somewher else, be better paid and get out of debt quicker?

People on both sides of the spectrum are being hurt...

daneast
12-18-2006, 02:30 PM
Again, here we go comparing us with the "rest" of the world. My point is, these misdiagnosis's, shortage of beds, doctors etc..are unacceptable. If a relative or friend dies because of an illness that, if caught in time, may have been remedied..totally unacceptable. If we all are to pay a percentage of our earnings, plus other taxes on bought items etc..for our healthcare then we should be receiving proper healthcare. If not, drop the amount of taxes taken out of each paycheck, lower the other taxes on purchase items and I will pay for my own healthcare. As long as I am being told by the government that is what part of my taxes go to...I(we) should get it. Would you continue to pay for a service you are not getting or is poor? How long would you work at a job where your clients lives and your own healthcare are at risk because of very high stress and hours? That was and continues to be my point...It is not the doctors, nurses, and other healthcare workers...it is the lack of funding, management and plain sound judgement by those that have the power to makes changes and do not. I complain because I work, I pay my taxes, I help those I can...all I expect is my government to do the same..no more, no less.

Mandi
12-18-2006, 03:59 PM
What are your expectations though? people are people, and they are going to make mistakes regardless how over worked they are. There's no doubt that there would be less mistakes if there were more people to pick up the slack. Our government is messed up. What can we do about it though? Do you think Doctors should walk out on those who need them with a months notice? Iwould have to disagree with that unless this dispute has been going on for some time without publicity.
As for taxes... we have a rather high tax range, and NB is the highest in Canada. I can only hope that who ever takes over Lord's seat (as I am not very well educated on our current government situation, I don't know who it will be, if anyone is even set up. ) will do a better job with education, but you can't make more doctors just 'appear' to relieve some of the stress.
You have to have some kind of incentive for that, be it higher wages, a personal massage from Angelina Jolie or whatever else you can think of. Until cloning is legal though, you can not / make/ a doctor , nor can you /make/ someone stay in our province. Sadly, because apparently we're screwed unless they find a way.

trinity
12-18-2006, 04:06 PM
We all have horror stories about the medical system. My father died 11 years ago because a doctor (not his own) diagnosed him with bronchitis and sent him home with a scrip for a puffer. He was dead hours later at home, the silent heart attack he had been having for days finally killed him. However, it is hard to blame the doctor completely in that circumstance, he had no pain, he had a history of bronchial infections and it was winter. He had just had surgery on his leg to clear a blocked artery. I do question how come no one thought to check the OTHER arteries in his body when both the ones in his legs had blockages, isn't it all the same blood system?? but they didn't. He also had lots of other high risk factors that were ignored-heavy smoker, high blood pressure, overweight, inactive, etc. If they had just taken the time to put him on a heart monitor, he probably would still be alive, or at least not died on the sofa while my mother hung Christmas decorations in the next room. I myself would prefer to pay for my own healthcare, as I have had only sparing needs for it myself.
And the dispute HAS been going on for a lot longer than a month, I started hearing about it in October, no doubt it had been going on a lot longer in private. These doctors don't really want to quit, and they don't even specifically want more money, they would settle for help. They want staff and beds and equipment. I know it says they want more money, but I think that is the governmental spin doctors putting words in the medical doctors mouths to make them look bad, if they got more staff and more beds, they would probably back down from asking for cash.

daneast
12-18-2006, 04:39 PM
What are my expectations? Not to be left in a hallway covered by a sheet because there are no rooms. Not to have to wait 6 hours to see a doctor for 5 minutes who tells me it is the flu when it is a serious chest infection..all becuase he/she has 20 other patients lined up, can't schedule an xray because he/she is too busy..shall I go on? Yes, everyone makes mistakes but when it could actually be a matter of life and death the fewer the better, wouldn't you agree. Most of the mistakes are made because of overwork. The answer is simple, take some of the money granted to large corporations in way of tax breaks etc and pay doctors more, setup loan repayment help, hire more nurses etc..open more beds..bring back our healthcare.

T4
12-18-2006, 05:29 PM
Two thumbs up daneast!! I couldn't agree with you more. Take the granted coroporation money and put it back into the health system. It's about SAVING lives...those of the sick....and of those that work there.

Cherry Pop
12-18-2006, 07:11 PM
Move to the US... That would be much closer to hell. Their medical system is scary

Our medical system is scary and it is hell! You totally don't know what you're talking about! I've lived the health care system the last 8 years. As for it not being about money well can someone explain then why they are asking for more money? And the working conditions are bad cause they can't get along and work together to make the conditions better. Some workers just don't show up for their shift - just like any other job except this one affects peoples lives!

Mandi
12-18-2006, 07:21 PM
Our medical system is scary and it is hell! You totally don't know what you're talking about! I've lived the health care system the last 8 years. As for it not being about money well can someone explain then why they are asking for more money? And the working conditions are bad cause they can't get along and work together to make the conditions better. Some workers just don't show up for their shift - just like any other job except this one affects peoples lives!

What changes would you suggest they make to our medical system to make it 'not hell.'?

Cherry Pop
12-18-2006, 07:33 PM
Well first of all I don't think you should have to pay to go to another province to have surgery when your province is too lazy to hire a replacement surgeon for the one it lost! Second I think they need to hire more nurses and doctors including surgeons. Third they need to have some sort of security person or another head nurse that prevents the hospital staff from arguing and fighting in front of patients who are fighting for their lives about their working conditions! I also I think that the triage nurses need to be better trained in figuring out worse comes first cases! Also I really think a city as Big as SJ needs more than one ER! It wouldn't hurt to have an after-hours clinic in the hospital beside the ER so if someone only has the flu or a cold they could be sent there rather than wasting ER time! Then let's say they are sent there but the dr thinks it's more they could easily be moved over to the ER. Should I go on cause I probably could all night.......

kaj27
12-18-2006, 08:07 PM
I said welcome to hell, not the system is hell.


Also the province doesn't have problems hiring nurses or doctors. My girlfriend is 1 year away from being an RN. She and I both do not want to work in this province. Why?

AHS feels it is okay to pay RNs BELOW the national standard for wages. They also feel it is okay to NOT let RNs work fulltime. Yup. Thats right! They WANT them to be casual workers with no benefits!

Thumbs down for this place!

daneast
12-18-2006, 09:19 PM
Makes my point exactly..how can a doctor or nurse make the system better? They can't. For those that talk about healthcare workers not showing up, arguing etc...no wonder..they are expected to do twice the work in half the time...deal with life and death (or very serious) decisions everyday, put up with OUR crap, are underpaid...man, even if you love helping others any person can only stand so much...The gov need to put thier money and effort where thier mouth is.

kaj27
12-18-2006, 09:25 PM
Makes my point exactly..how can a doctor or nurse make the system better? They can't. For those that talk about healthcare workers not showing up, arguing etc...no wonder..they are expected to do twice the work in half the time...deal with life and death (or very serious) decisions everyday, put up with OUR crap, are underpaid...man, even if you love helping others any person can only stand so much...The gov need to put thier money and effort where thier mouth is.


Well said Dan.

Mandi
12-18-2006, 09:45 PM
Makes my point exactly..how can a doctor or nurse make the system better? They can't. For those that talk about healthcare workers not showing up, arguing etc...no wonder..they are expected to do twice the work in half the time...deal with life and death (or very serious) decisions everyday, put up with OUR crap, are underpaid...man, even if you love helping others any person can only stand so much...The gov need to put thier money and effort where thier mouth is.

It's hard to do that when their foot is already there. -snicker- The government needs to be able to be more accountable. Make promises and have to keep them. I think a lot of the problem is that they get a 4 year term, and once they're in , it's not easy to get them out in that 4 years, and it seems to work if they suck up to people for 6 months before elections, they get votes, regardless how horribly they did for the first 3 and a half years.

tred816
12-18-2006, 09:59 PM
If it's so easy for simple folk like us to figure out, why can't the government put two and two together and get their acts together. The following solutions occur very quickly to me:

1 - Nurses and Doctors need sensitivity training. If they are rude, the public should have the right to complain and repercusions should be implemented effective immediately. A second opinion should be available before sending a patient home. If the patient feels the doctor could be making a mistake, there should be the option to disagree. Not only would this make the patient more comfortable, but it would also cover the hospital's butt too.

2 - Incentive plans should be implemented for example. Go to school, become a Dr./Nurse and work in NB for 5 years and your student loan is forgiven! or at least reduced a great deal

3 - A hospital should be accessible to all, shuttle buses would be much cheaper than having an ambulance called due to a child getting a bloody nose (seen it happen), the bus/cab fare to the hospital should be free in other words. The cost of having the ambulance dispatched could, not only be financial, but also could cost the life of another human being who needed it worse.

4 - If you're going to leave patients in the waiting room for 5 or 10 hours, why not have more comfortable surroundings. For example, blankets, pillows, chairs that lean back etc.. at least the sick people could sleep while they wait or at least rest.

I don't believe our health care is comparable to hell. I think we are very lucky to have the system that we do, but I feel that there are too many mistakes to consider them simply "human error". It took the hospital 3 years and 18 trips to the hospital to find out I had a life threatening heart condition when I was a kid. From the time I was 12 to 15, I thought I was crazy cus they would hand me a paper bag and say I was hyperventilating. NOT once did they put me on a heart monitor. That's all it took to spot the problem when I was 15 years old having a heart attack. 2 trips to Nova Scotia and I live to tell about it. But still, I struggle second guessing myself when it comes to "how sick am I???" before going to the hospital. That was many years ago and I'm sure some things are better, but it's hard to get past crap like that.

Cherry Pop
12-18-2006, 10:18 PM
I said welcome to hell, not the system is hell.


Also the province doesn't have problems hiring nurses or doctors. My girlfriend is 1 year away from being an RN. She and I both do not want to work in this province. Why?

AHS feels it is okay to pay RNs BELOW the national standard for wages. They also feel it is okay to NOT let RNs work fulltime. Yup. Thats right! They WANT them to be casual workers with no benefits!

Thumbs down for this place!

Ok for some reason everytime i try to post on here it isn't working! let's try this again shell we!
I disagree! The province only took 5 years to replace my surgeon! In the mean time I had to travel to Ontario. I've had 9 surgeries in total, will be having my 10th next year! I had 4 here and 5 in Ontario. The thing that bothers me most about our health care is that people suffer when they shouldn't have too! I could've been better years ago had the proper care been here. Also our health care will pay for surgeries but won't pay for you to travel to another province. As a single mom who had to leave both my 2 jobs due to illness and surgery, is it really fair that i had to pay for 10 plane trips to and from ontario at $400 each. Pay for hotels,taxi fare from the airport. yeah so now i owe about $8000 just for this alone thank gosh for credit cards and good credit! Now that i'm home i have to pay an additional $500 a month for medical supplies in addition to having to pay off my medical trips! By the way I'm not able to work right now so tell me how this isn't hell!!! Yeah everyone has their opinions but really i think that the patient opinions who have had to live the whole health care experience are the ones people should consider! I've been sick for 8 long years going on 9. I've been in and out of the hospital too many times to count and yes I've been to the ER many times and it is always a horrifying experience. I'm sorry but our "wonderful" healthcare system has failed me so yes i do have a very extremely negative opinion on our health care system! I've been living in it for the last 8 years how many of you can say the same?!

kaj27
12-18-2006, 11:45 PM
Ok for some reason everytime i try to post on here it isn't working! let's try this again shell we!
I disagree! The province only took 5 years to replace my surgeon! In the mean time I had to travel to Ontario. I've had 9 surgeries in total, will be having my 10th next year! I had 4 here and 5 in Ontario. The thing that bothers me most about our health care is that people suffer when they shouldn't have too! I could've been better years ago had the proper care been here. Also our health care will pay for surgeries but won't pay for you to travel to another province. As a single mom who had to leave both my 2 jobs due to illness and surgery, is it really fair that i had to pay for 10 plane trips to and from ontario at $400 each. Pay for hotels,taxi fare from the airport. yeah so now i owe about $8000 just for this alone thank gosh for credit cards and good credit! Now that i'm home i have to pay an additional $500 a month for medical supplies in addition to having to pay off my medical trips! By the way I'm not able to work right now so tell me how this isn't hell!!! Yeah everyone has their opinions but really i think that the patient opinions who have had to live the whole health care experience are the ones people should consider! I've been sick for 8 long years going on 9. I've been in and out of the hospital too many times to count and yes I've been to the ER many times and it is always a horrifying experience. I'm sorry but our "wonderful" healthcare system has failed me so yes i do have a very extremely negative opinion on our health care system! I've been living in it for the last 8 years how many of you can say the same?!


You disagree? I'm confused. It sounded like you agreed with me.....

Cherry Pop
12-18-2006, 11:56 PM
you said that the province doesn't have problems hiring, i said they do...that's not agreeing

Cherry Pop
12-18-2006, 11:57 PM
but i think we agree on other points!

kaj27
12-19-2006, 03:42 PM
you said that the province doesn't have problems hiring, i said they do...that's not agreeing

Re-Read what I said...


They will hire people! But who wants to work for wages low and no benefits. My point is the AHS Corp. has to offer a bit more than part time work with terrible pay to lure people in.

I am expressing my displeasure with the AHS they pay poorly and don't treat employees properly. Which in turn gets passed onto the customers (patients).

Why would I want to be a Nurse or Doctor in this province when I can make double that else where!? Serious adjustment is needed.

Cherry Pop
12-19-2006, 07:43 PM
Re-Read what I said...


They will hire people! But who wants to work for wages low and no benefits. My point is the AHS Corp. has to offer a bit more than part time work with terrible pay to lure people in.

I am expressing my displeasure with the AHS they pay poorly and don't treat employees properly. Which in turn gets passed onto the customers (patients).

Why would I want to be a Nurse or Doctor in this province when I can make double that else where!? Serious adjustment is needed.

Sorry! I just get so worked up over our health care system cause of my situation. They do pay poorly that is why my original surgeon left this province 5 years ago and unfortunately he was the only one of his kind that was in the entire province!