Pot thread

[dmbeyea]

I figured since its taking up 3 to 4 pages in another post why not just make one here for you's to agure about it here.
I really don't care if you smoke it or not, just don't do it around me or my kids. Thats all I have to say about it.

[vanessalynn5484]

I am done talking about it as I have other things to do. :biggrin: I enjoyed the discussion though. Everyone made some really good points, but it's not something I am passionate enough about to keep it going for any longer hah hah.

Maybe another time....

[Woofer]

i dont smoke cigarettes or pot myself. sorry. :)

[dmbeyea]

I'm being smart about it
Like I said I don't care. I don't smoke anything and won't allow smoking in my home at all

[sjchickie]

Smoker over here.... :)

[Chinna Dah]

Never touched the stuff myself.

[vanessalynn5484]

Yes one time I put a pot in the microwave- sparks and smoke ensued.

[The_Dave]

Just got home from work. Rollin a big fat daddy now. The pot fairy gave me the stuff.

[Mandi]

Yes one time I put a pot in the microwave- sparks and smoke ensued.

I heard of a similar bad experience, but they put it in for too long, and burnt their self taking it out... nasty little / big burn that was, three fingers, and man did it look painful. I think I'll stick to ice cream and chocolate. lol no drugs for me! :p

[Mandi]

Just got home from work. Rollin a big fat daddy now. The pot fairy gave me the stuff.


LOL!!!

[vanessalynn5484]

I hope by rolling a big fat daddy you mean setting a heavy set father in motion because what you are alluding to is illegal!!!

[Mandi]

I hope by rolling a big fat daddy you mean setting a heavy set father in motion because what you are alluding to is illegal!!!
*gasp* :rofl:

[chevygirl]

o

[The_Dave]

vanessalynn5484 and Mandi, I do not smoke dope, I was joking. After all I am The_dave, always kidding and tormenting.

[vanessalynn5484]

I got the joke, I made one too.....

I kid The_Dave

lol

I'm going to bed now goodnight forum. http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s114/vanessalynn548454/th8.gif

[space]

whats is a pot and what is a ciggarette? never heard of it

[Mandi]

vanessalynn5484 and Mandi, I do not smoke dope, I was joking. After all I am The_dave, always kidding and tormenting.

I knew you were joking, I just found it hilarious. -shrug- My pregnant mind is easily ammused I guess.

[Mandy]

Pot????

Pot????

Is someone selling pot????





Just kidding.....


None for me thanks.

To each his own.

[oasis]

Will admit to having done so in the past. Saw what it was doing to some of my friends and decided I wanted a better life than that so I gave it up. Cigarettes were next.


Never really enjoyed myself when I was high and could not see the attraction some people had to it. That was over 20 years ago.

[vanessalynn5484]

When I was a teenager my friend and I were having a yard sale and we were selling one her mom's pots. We decided to make a sign (we were bored and needed a laugh) in big letters that said "Pot 4 SALE" . It was a slow day so no one really appreciated the joke, but us.

I should point out we were VERY straight edge teenagers who didn't even drink, let alone do drugs.

Sometimes I guess I am easily amused too.... heh heh

[vanessalynn5484]

I just thought of something else to consider for everyone interested in participating in this thread.

In some cultures marijuana is considered a sacrament. It is something which takes them to a spiritual place. Is there any isaintjohners out there who experience this type of smoking and would like to share their opinion? I'd love to hear about it as I am always interested in diversity.

Here is an example of a cultural difference:

Three years ago I read a study about marijuana use in Jamaica. Pregnant women smoked marijuana to deal with nausea. The women who smoked had healthier babies than the women who did not. This is most likely because of the fact that the women who were smoking were also probably financially well off, but also were able to keep their food down. These women were most likely also using marijuana before their pregnancies and continued during.

Now that is not something I'd recommend for a Canadian women or any women, just repeating what I had read. There are many other options for us and the risks of doing what they did do not outweigh the benefits here. Your baby could be born addicted to THC causing colic and other problems.

[Mandi]

I have heard that smoking while breastfeeding actually makes your child a more content, brighter baby. I don't know if there's any truth to it, but I think I'll look it up. It's all so interesting.

[vanessalynn5484]

When you look beyond the social stigmas and keep an open mind about things you can learn a lot and see a side to things you never did before. :D

Marijuana is very multi-faceted.

If you are a marijuana smoker your baby can still enjoy the many benefits of breastfeeding. Speak with your doctor about the risks and benefits to determine what is right for you. Consult a lactation professional. Even cigg smokers can breastfeed.

--off topic...but ah well...---
Breastfeeding is very difficult, but if you can survive it long enough to get the hang of it, it's amazing. The bond you feel with that baby is incredible. The babies enjoy skin to skin contact. Breastfeeding my second was sooo much easier than breastfeeding my first because all of the fears about being a new mom aren't really there anymore and you are able to concentrate more on the nursing. That is just my personal opinion based on my own experiences.:o

[vanessalynn5484]

Example of marijuana in popular culture (recent examples)

Showtime Television Series - Weeds
A suburban housewife is widowed and forced to support her family by selling marijuana. Eventually it develops into a grow op which becomes quite complicated by a marriage to a DEA agent and Hostile Armenians- This is a satirical look at how one must persevere when operating beneath the moral code of society. One of the themes is creating your own moral standards when society's set values are not obtainable.

The Pot- Song by Tool - 10,000 days album
I have heard that this song is about a California man arrested and convicted for medicinally growing marijuana. US laws are more harsh than ours' when it comes to drugs. Lyrically the song is very clever and instrumentally it is brilliant (I am a HUGE Tool fan heh heh. yup i'm a metal luvin' mama.).

[devils_advocat1]

if you think that song is good check out "marijuana" by phish

[sjchickie]

I think i will download that song right now thanks Devils advocat LOL

[devils_advocat1]

do i sence sarcasm in that comment? lol

[vanessalynn5484]

Check out Ganja Babe by Michael Franti & Spearhead :D

[ceg]

I have never tried it and can say I never will. The smell of it makes my stomach turn and gives me terrible headaches.

[sjchickie]

I find it halarious that people claims it gives them headaches. Maybe popurri and insence give ya headaches to. Or strong perfume...

[ChelorSean]

sorry sjchickie but it gives me headaches too and so does perfume and everything with a strong smell but i have tried it and it didn't bother me the moment i was going...know what i mean....anyways i really don't have anything to say for or against it but thought i would put that out there.:)

[sjchickie]

Nahhhh its ok my father says the same thing. He can smell it a mile away and says it makes him sick LOL. But when you walk into sears...now THAT gives me a headache. I love perfume but all of it mixed together makes me gag. LOL

[vanessalynn5484]

People I know who smoke marijuana either smoke it hiding in their back yard or in their bedroom with the window open, fan going, door blocked with towels, and incense or candles burning. They are mostly older so I guess they know what works and what doesn't.

I happen to not mind the smell, I actually like it. Marijuana does not have one uniform smell either there are many different types which have different smells. There are woodsy smelling strains and sweet, yet strong smelling strains. That is the best way I can explain it at the moment as I just woke up lol.

I can completely understand why you would choose not to smoke weed, it's not a lifestyle for everyone. And not one for children or teens!!! I feel very strongly that children and teens should not do drugs.

I hope this thread is not seen to encourage marijuana smoking as that was not the intent, not on my behalf anywhoo (I am not accusing anyone of having this agenda, just stating I can not speak for everyone):D

[sjchickie]

Haha vanessa you never cease to impress me. Your right the strains, the time of year, where its grown( in versus out versue hydroponics)....but your right no children or teenagers should ever smoke. I never tried it EVER until the day of my grade 12 prom. Its not a lifestyle for everyone..by any means...but I guess i see it as why smoke cigarettes when you can smoke something that mellows you out. LOL

[The_Dave]

It may mellow you out, but it kills your brain cells (could be why your so mellow, low brain cell count) and the effects, though people will say different, are far worse than cigerettes to your lungs.

[vanessalynn5484]

The_Dave this is a half-truth, you are leaving out a lot.

[The_Dave]

Such as???

[vanessalynn5484]

For the love of all things shiny an expensive do I really need to repeat what I have already typed again??? I have a url it's in my sig you can go and find all my posts....it's in there somewhere!

I am glad you are Anti-Drug, just saying that is is a half truth buttered up to discourage reefer usage, I appreciate that as it's a good idea to spread the word that drugs are bad.

I just believe knowledge is power more so than half truths.

[vanessalynn5484]

Compounds found in Cannabis Sativa
(-)-[delta 1]-3,4-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol (most active cannabinoid)
(-)-[delta 6]-3,4-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol
tetrahydrocannabitriol (aka cannabitriol)
cannabidiolic acid
cannabidiol
cannabinol (forms after plant dies)
THC acids A and B (inactive unless smoked)
Minor constituents: cannabigerol
cannabigerolic acid
cannabichromene
cannabichromenic acid
cannabicyclol (aka cannabipinol)
cannabicyclolic acid
cannabicitran
cannabielsoic acids A and B
cannabinolic acid (neutral cannabinoid)
cannabichromanon
cannabifuran
dehydrocannabifuran
2-oxo-[delta 3]-tetrahydrocannabinol
cannabigerol monomethyl ether
cannabidiol monomethyl ether
cannabinol methyl ether
propylcannabidiol (aka cannabidivarol & cannabidivarin)
propylcannabinol (aka cannabivarol & cannabivarin)
propyl-[delta 1]-THC (aka [delta 1]-tetrahydrocannabivarol & tetrahydrocannabivarin)
propylcannabigerol
propylcannabicyclol
propylcannabichromene
methylcannabidiol (aka cannabidiorcol)
methylcannabinol (aka cannabiorcol)
methyl-[delta 1]-THC (aka [delta 1]-tetrahydrocannabiorcol)
[delta 1]-tetrahydrocannabivarolic acid

Nitrogen-containing compounds: choline
trigonelline
muscarine
piperidine
N-(p-hydroxy-B-phenylethyl)-p-hydroxy-trans-cinnamide
neurine
L-proline
L-isoleucine betaine
hordenine
cannabisativine (alkaloid found in the roots)
[compiled from "The Botany and Chemistry of Hallucinogens" by Schultes & Hofmann]

[vanessalynn5484]

You will not find a more accurate list than that. It is unbiased and not from an anti drug website.

[vanessalynn5484]

6000 B.C.
Cannabis seeds used for food in China

4000 B.C.
Textiles made of hemp are used in China. Remains have been found of hemp fibers from this period and from Turkestan a century later.

2727 B.C.
First recorded use of cannabis as medicine in Chinese pharmacopoeia. In every part of the world humankind has used cannabis for a wide variety of health problems.

1500 B.C.
Cannabis cultivated in China for food and fiber 1500 B.C.
Scythians cultivate cannabis and use it to weave fine hemp cloth. (Sumach 1975)

1200 - 800 BCE
Bhang (dried cannabis leaves, seeds and stems) is mentioned in the Hindu sacred text Atharva veda (Science of Charms) as "Sacred Grass", one of the five sacred plants of India. It is used by medicinally and ritually as an offering to Shiva.

700 - 600 BCE
The Zoroastrian Zend-Avesta, an ancient Persian religious text of several hundred volumes, and said to have been written by Zarathustra (Zoroaster), refers to bhang as Zoroaster's "good narcotic" (Vendidad or The Law Against Demons)

700 - 300 BCE
Scythian tribes leave Cannabis seeds as offerings in royal tombs.

500 B.C.
Scythian couple die and are buried with two small tents covering censers. Attached to one tent stick was a decorated leather pouch containing wild Cannabis seeds. This closely matches the stories told by Herodotus. The gravesite, discovered in the late 1940s, was in Pazryk, northwest of the Tien Shan Mountains in modern-day Khazakstan.

500 B.C.
Hemp is introduced into Northern Europe by the Scythians. An urn containing leaves and seeds of the Cannabis plant, unearthed near Berlin, is dated to about this time.

500 - 100 BCE
Hemp spreads throughout northern Europe.

430 B.C.
Herodotus reports on both ritual and recreation use of Cannabis by the Scythians (Herodotus The Histories 430 B.C. trans. G. Rawlinson).

100 - 0 BCE
The psychotropic properties of Cannabis are mentioned in the newly compiled herbal Pen Ts'ao Ching which is attributed to an emperor

c. 2700 B.C. 0 - 100 A.D.
Construction of Samartian gold and glass paste stash box for storing hashish, coriander, or salt, buried in Siberian tomb. 70
Dioscorides mentions the use of Cannabis as a Roman medicament. 170
Galen (Roman) alludes to the psychoactivity of Cannabis seed confections.

500 - 600
The Jewish Talmud mentions the euphoriant properties of Cannabis. (Abel 1980)

900 - 1000
Scholars debate the pros and cons of eating hashish. Use spreads throughout Arabia.

1090 - 1256
In Khorasan, Persia, Hasan ibn al-Sabbah, the Old Man of the Mountain, recruits followers to commit assassinations...legends develop around their supposed use of hashish. These legends are some of the earliest written tales of the discovery of the inebriating powers of Cannabis and the supposed use of Hashish.

1256 Alamut falls Early 12th Century
Hashish smoking very popular throughout the Middle East.

[vanessalynn5484]

12th Century
Cannabis is introduced in Egypt during the reign of the Ayyubid dynasty on the occasion of the flooding of Egypt by mystic devotees coming from Syria. (M.K. Hussein 1957 - Soueif 1972)

1155 - 1221
Persian legend of the Sufi master Sheik Haidar's of Khorasan's personal discovery of Cannabis and it's subsequent spread to Iraq, Bahrain, Egypt and Syria. Another of the ealiest written narratives of the use of Cannabis as an inebriant.

13th Century
The oldest monograph on hashish, Zahr al-'arish fi tahrim al-hashish, was written. It has since been lost.

13th Century
Ibn al-Baytar of Spain provides a description of psychaoctive Cannabis.

13th Century
Arab traders bring Cannabis to the Mozambique coast of Africa. 1231
Hashish introduced to Iraq in the reign of Caliph Mustansir (Rosenthal 1971)

1271 - 1295
Journeys of Marco Polo in which he gives second-hand reports of the story of Hasan ibn al-Sabbah and his "assassins" using hashish. First time reports of Cannabis have been brought to the attention of Europe.

1378
Ottoman Emir Soudoun Scheikhouni issues one of the first edicts against the eating of hashish.

1526
Babur Nama, first emperor and founder of Mughal Empire learned of hashish in Afghanistan.

1549
Angolan slaves brought cannabis with them to the sugar plantations of northeastern Brazil. They were permitted to plant their cannabis between rows of cane, and to smoke it between harvests.

mid 16th Century
The epic poem, Benk u Bode, by the poet Mohammed Ebn Soleiman Foruli of Baghdad, deals allegorically with a dialectical battle between wine and hashish.

Apr 10, 1563
"Conversations on the simples, drugs and materia medica of India" is published by Portuguese physician Garcia de Orta. It discusses Cannabis, Opium, and Nutmeg, among more than 50 medicinal plants and substances. 17th Century
Use of hashish, alcohol, and opium spreads among the population of occupied Constantinople

1606-1632
French and British cultivate Cannabis for hemp at their colonies in Port Royal (1606), Virginia (1611), and Plymouth (1632).

Late 17th Century
Hashish becomes a major trade item between Central Asia and South Asia.

1798
Napoleon discovers that much of the Egyptian lower class habitually uses hashish (Kimmens 1977). He declares a total prohibition. Soldiers returning to France bring the tradition with them.

[vanessalynn5484]

19th Century
Hashish production expands from Russian Turkestan into Yarkand in Chinese Turkestan.

1809
Antoine Sylvestre de Sacy, a leading Arabist, reveals the etymology of the words "assassin" and "hashishin"

1840
In America, medicinal preparations with a Cannabis base are available. Hashish available in Persian pharmacies.

1850
Le Club des Hachichins, or Hashish Eater's Club, is established in Paris after 1850.

1850
Hashish appears in Greece.

1856
British tax ganja and charas trade in India

1870 - 1880
First reports of hashish smoking on Greek mainland

c. 1875
Cultivation for hashish introduced to Greece

1877
Kerr reports on Indian ganja and charas trade.

1890
Greek Department of Interior prohibits importance, cultivation and use of hashish.

1890
Hashish made illegal in Turkey 1893 - 1894
The India Hemp Drugs Commission Report is issued.

1893 - 1894
70,000 to 80,000 kg of hashish legally imported into India from Central Asia each year.

1906
Pure Food and Drug Act is passed, regulating the labelling of products containing Alcohol, Opiates, Cocaine, and Cannabis, among others. The law went into effect Jan 1, 1907 4 [Details] Early 20th Century
Hashish smoking very popular throughout the Middle East.

1915 - 1927
Cannabis begins to be prohibited for nonmedical use in the U.S., especially in SW states...California (1915), Texas (1919), Louisiana (1924), and New York (1927).

1920
Metaxus dictators in Greece crack down on hashish smoking.

1920s
Hashish smuggled into Egypt from Greece, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, and Central Asia

1926
Lebanese hashish production peaks after World War I until prohibited in in 1926.

1926. 1928
Recrational use of Cannabis is banned in Britain.

1920s - 1930s
High-quality hashish produced in Turkey near Greek border.

1930
Yarkand region of Chinese Turkestan exports 91,471 kg of hashish legally into the Northwest Frontier and Punjab regions of India 1930s
Legal taxed imports of hashish continue into India from Central Asia.

1934 - 1935
Chinese government moves to end all Cannabis cultivation in Yarkand and charas traffic from Yarkand. Both licit and illicit hashish production become illegal in Chinese Turkestan.

1936
Propaganda film "Reefer Madness" made to scare American youth away from using Cannabis.

1937
Cannabis made federally illegal in the U.S. with the passage of the Marihuana Tax Act. 1938
Supply of hashish from chinese Turkestan nearly ceases.

1940s
Greek hashish smoking tradition fades.

1941
Indian government considers cultivation in Kashmir to fill void of hashish from Chinese Turkestan.

1941 - 1942
Hand-rubbed charas from Nepal is choicest hashish in India during World

War II. 1945
Legal hashish consumption continues in India 1945 - 1955
Hashish use in Greece flourishes again

1950s
Hashish still smuggled into India from Chinese Central Asia

1950s
Moroccan government tacitly allows kif cultivation in Rif Mountains.

1962
First hashish made in Morocco.

1963
Turkish police seize 2.5 tons of hashish 1965
First reports of C. afghanica use for hashish production in northern Afghanistan
1965
Mustafa comes to Ketama in Morocco to make hashish from local kif. 1966
The Moroccan government attempts to purge kif growers from Rif Mountains.

1967
"Smash", the first hashish oil appears. Red Lebanese reaches California.

Late 1960s - Early 1970s
The Brotherhood popularizes Afghani hashish.

1970 - 1973
Huge fields of Cannabis cultivated for hashish production in Afghanistan.

[Tara]

April 15th 2007 - *puff puff pass* Giggity giggity all riiiiiiiiiiight

[vanessalynn5484]

1972
The Nixon-appointed Shafer Commission urged use of cannabis be re-legalized, but their recommendation was ignored. Medical research continues.

Early 1970s
Lebanese red and blonde hashish of very high-quality exported. The highest quality Turkish hashish from Gaziantep near Syria appears in western Europe.

Early 1970s
Afghani hashish varieties introduced to North America for sinsemilla production. Westerners bring metal sieve cloths to Afghanistan. Law enforcement efforts against hashish begin in Afghanistan

1973
Nepal bans the Cannabis shops and charas (hand-rolled hash) export.

1973
Afghan government makes hashish production and sales illegal. Afghani harvest is pitifully small.

1975
FDA establishes Compassionate Use program for medical marijuana.

1976 -1977
Quality of Lebanese hashish reaches zenith.

1978
Westerners make sieved hashish in Nepal from wild Cannabis.

Late 1970s
Increasing manufacture of "modern" Afghani hashish. Cannabis varieties from Afghanistan imported into Kashmir for sieved hashish production.


1980s
Morocco becomes one of, if not the largest, hashish producing and exporting nations.

1980s
"Border" hashish produced in northwestern Pakistan along the Afghan border to avoid Soviet-Afghan war.
Early 1980s
Quality of Lebanese hashish declines.

1983 - 1984
Small amounts of the last high-quality Turkish hashish appear.

1985
Hashish still produced by Muslims of Kashgar and Yarkland (NW China).

1986
Most private stashes of pre-war Afghani hashish in Amsterdam, Goa, and America are nearly finished.

May 13, 1986
Dronabinol is placed into Schedule II by the DEA.

1987
Moroccan government cracks down upon Cannabis cultivation in lower eleations of Rif Mountains.

1988
DEA administrative law Judge Francis Young finds after thorough hearings that marijuana has clearly established medical use and should be reclassified as a prescriptive drug. His recommendation is ignored.

1993
Cannabis eradication efforts resume in Morocco.

1994
Heavy fighting between rival Muslim clans continues to upset hashish trade in Afghanistan

1994
Border hashish still produced in Pakistan.

1995
Introduction of hashish-making equipment and appearance of locally produced hashish in Amsterdam coffee shops.

Oct 23, 2001
Britain's Home Secretary, David Blunkett, proposes relaxing the classification of cannabis from a class B to class C.

[vanessalynn5484]

April 15th 2007 - *puff puff pass* Giggity giggity all riiiiiiiiiiight
LOL!!!:rofl:

[sjchickie]

vanessa is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Smoking cigarettes is MUCH more harmful to your lungs than marijuana and thats 100%. All that other stuff is twisted and made to sound different along the way so that people wont choose to try an illegal substance as opposed to a government controlled one. Like smokes!!!!. Even my parents who HATE the fact that I am a toker agree that its much less harmful than cigarettes. I got all the facts before i tried it and I still keep on reading studies and stuff as i like to keep informed.

Dave as for you saying maybe I am mellow because of my brain cel count. I think thats a little bit harsh. LOL....I am mellow in general but I have a hectic life of school, my daughter, and housework. I dont go out and party or drink so I smoke pot to relax me!!! 100%. My brain cels work just fine...if anything has fried them it was the years of smoking cancer sticks with i quit about 3 months ago. Never will go back to smokes again!!!!

[vanessalynn5484]

I'd like to throw this out there. I hope it doesn't shatter anyone's reality, but smoking anything kills braincells. But hey how many brain cells do you possess and will never be able to use? Unless you are like me and can light fires with mind.....

[jdcb]

can light fires with mind.....

I can light fires with a coke can and a chocolate bar...

[vanessalynn5484]

I can light fires with a coke can and a chocolate bar...Well not everyone is special like us.

hey it's 4:20

*lites marijuana cigarettes up around the world with her mind*

enjoy!
ps: What would you be called if you wrote sad lyrics and wore black eyeliner? An E-Moderator LOL:rofl:

please don't ban me *angel face* LOL jk

[adm]

Ummm - WRONG..sorry to burst your bubble.

Smoking marijuana can cause significant health problems. Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, of which 60 are cannabinoids. Smoking a marijuana cigarette deposits about three to five times more tar into the lungs than one filtered tobacco cigarette.

Consequently, regular marijuana smokers suffer from many of the same health problems as tobacco smokers, such as chronic coughing and wheezing, chest colds, and chronic bronchitis. In fact, studies show that smoking three to four joints per day causes at least as much harm to the respiratory system as smoking a full pack of cigarettes every day. Marijuana smoke also contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke and produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into malignant cells.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/bldea050426_4.htm

vanessa is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Smoking cigarettes is MUCH more harmful to your lungs than marijuana and thats 100%. All that other stuff is twisted and made to sound different along the way so that people wont choose to try an illegal substance as opposed to a government controlled one. Like smokes!!!!. Even my parents who HATE the fact that I am a toker agree that its much less harmful than cigarettes. I got all the facts before i tried it and I still keep on reading studies and stuff as i like to keep informed.

[vanessalynn5484]

Ummm - WRONG..sorry to burst your bubble.

Smoking marijuana can cause significant health problems. Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, of which 60 are cannabinoids. Smoking a marijuana cigarette deposits about three to five times more tar into the lungs than one filtered tobacco cigarette.

Consequently, regular marijuana smokers suffer from many of the same health problems as tobacco smokers, such as chronic coughing and wheezing, chest colds, and chronic bronchitis. In fact, studies show that smoking three to four joints per day causes at least as much harm to the respiratory system as smoking a full pack of cigarettes every day. Marijuana smoke also contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke and produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into malignant cells.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/bldea050426_4.htm

I am not wrong. My sources are probably more accurate than your own. One or two studies prove these things versus years of studies which have been tucked under the rug or disregarded as holistic hooky nonsense. No one is going to fund concrete studies on marijuana anyways. Those are scare tactics and good for them I am glad. Show that to your kids, but adults can handle the truth.

Trust me I didn't just run a google search and paste the first results that made sense. My information comes from sources, I can not site said source on this site, but I could produce a list of books, mostly scientific and not "anti-drug" related, which my information was gathered from.

I can not post the source on this site because it describes things as how to roll marijuana cigarettes and tips on responsible marijuana smoking which may be seen by some as encouraging drug use.

[vanessalynn5484]

Ummm - WRONG..sorry to burst your bubble.

Smoking marijuana can cause significant health problems. Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, of which 60 are cannabinoids.


See previous thread by clicking here for a complete and fully accurate list of all chemicals found in marijuana. (http://www.isaintjohn.com/classifieds/showpost.php?p=81415&postcount=39)

[vanessalynn5484]

Two more points I would like to make:
1)Since I have read all the posts involved in this thread I know that sjchickie's use of marijuana seems to be weekly and not everyday. You would need to smoke multiple marijuana cigarettes daily for it to effect your lungs in such a bad way.

2)Since the long term effects of marijuana you stated are so extreme I am going to go out on a limb and say that in the study these facts are from the question of whether or not the individuals also smoked tobacco cigarettes was not mentioned. Probably because the majority of heavy marijuana smokers were also cigarette smokers or ex cigarette smokers. I can not be 100% for sure about this, but I'd put money on it.

[adm]

Of course - the unquotable sources....Frankly, if you want to smoke it - fill your boots. We'll revisit the subject in 10 or 15 years, I'm sure your long and short term memory will still be intact...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuana.html
http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/
http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marijteenstxt.html#top

[vanessalynn5484]

Actually I do not smoke it.

I don't BS and then make up info to make myself look right so I really do not appreciate the "ofcourse - the unquotable sources." comment.

You want quotable sources here are a couple
http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/marijuana/facts/3-mj-myths
http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/marijuana/facts/
http://www.brookes.ac.uk/health/libra/cannabis.html
http://www.ukcia.org/cannabis.php

[Mandi]

Of course - the unquotable sources....Frankly, if you want to smoke it - fill your boots. We'll revisit the subject in 10 or 15 years, I'm sure your long and short term memory will still be intact...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuana.html
http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/
http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marijteenstxt.html#top'

Apparently your short term memory isn't intact as she has stated several times that she does not her self smoke marijuana.

[vanessalynn5484]

Oh and here is a page of testimonies from people who smoke marijuana medicinally.
http://www.ukcia.org/medical/medicaltestimonies.php
Like this one by Tim with MS
http://www.ukcia.org/medical/showmedicaltestimony.php?articleid=239

[vanessalynn5484]

'

Apparently your short term memory isn't intact as she has stated several times that she does not her self smoke marijuana.heh heh

[sjchickie]

Vanessa I agree. Before this pot thread way back when there was another one. and i stated in that post in the old forums that i have read text books with studies and cases that have agreed with your "hooky nonsense" comment. It is a scare tactic!!!! Often the internet leaves out that these people are ALSO smokers... I am just a reformed smoker and all but one of my friends who smoke are smokers too. Of COURSE its gonna be worse to smoke both duhhhhhhh anyone with a brain can figure that out LOL.

I think people doubt our sanity on this BUT.....these government websites...go read the page about crack/cocaine and the abuse of it or crystal meth...there are paragraphs and paragraphs long. There is much less risk in smoking pot...and besides there is NOT many publicly or even privately long term studies on pot because who is gonna fund them and who will be a part of the study??

I recently read a study on pot by carelton university in Ottawe. They took 70 people from birth and did a study on the IQ of people who smoked different or no levels of pot. Infact the people who smoked 1-5 joints a week had a 2.5% increase in IQ than those in the study who had never smoked at all, along with those who had smoked heavily. They also found in this study (that im going to try hard to find right now online but the article is in the university library) that those who had been heavy users...and then quit for 3 months time had re-gained the 4.0% drop in IQ. Concluding that moderate use can infact increase your IQ, along with the fact that after quitting all that was lost can be fixed.

Soooooo while i go and try to find that you talk amongst yourselves ;):D:D....I just find it halarious the neither once have vanessa or me been rude or said that your opinions were false. we are merely stating our own and people like ADM being "UMMMMM WRONG sorry to burst your bubble" why you gotta be rude guy???? We arent forcing pot down your throat just offering a different opinion....Chillax

[Mandi]

Of course - the unquotable sources....Frankly, if you want to smoke it - fill your boots. We'll revisit the subject in 10 or 15 years, I'm sure your long and short term memory will still be intact...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuana.html
http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/
http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marijteenstxt.html#top

Taken from the second site you posted here.

Myth: Marijuana Kills Brain Cells. Used over time, marijuana permanently alters brain structure and function, causing memory loss, cognitive impairment, personality deterioration, and reduced productivity.
Fact: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

[sjchickie]

THANK YOU MANDI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and here is that study i was talking about ...read it vanessa....it makes a lot of sense to those who have used or been around the drug much

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/abstract/166/7/887


OH and here is the website documenting exactly word for word how they found it........its also chalk full of facts. Its an incredibly well documented study

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=100921

[vanessalynn5484]

Sjchickie I will PM you a website I can not post here because you can easily access info to any type of drug and I wouldn't want to post that. Some of it is graphic,but it is the most accurate [and comprehensive]source online.

The study I mentioned earlier about Jamaican women is on there.

[vanessalynn5484]

researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. hehehehe stoned monkies...I guess there is worse testing they could have been selected for....

[The_Dave]

Smoking dope from birth?? Who is rolling these babies the joints??

[vanessalynn5484]

LMAO :rofl:

[The_Dave]

Hey sjchicken, i clicked on one of your links, and one of the authors is Peter Fried!!! How ironic!! Try all you want, drugs kill. Bottom line

[adm]

I'm glad to see that you read some of the links - kudos to you for searching for the mythbusters that lead you to believe that pot is safe.....

The mind is a marvelous device. If you tell yourself something enough you'll believe it's the truth. That's how sociopaths pass the polygraph.

Happy toking - I'm sure you will all have a long and prosperous life. Someone needs to keep the pizza joints in business.

[vanessalynn5484]

Wow adm you are really rude and closed minded. You have ignored everything anyone said except for what you want to believe. I think it's because you do not like to be proved wrong. Can I interest you in my friend Mr Bowl of sour grapes perhaps?


As for your sociopath comment, maybe you should take a long walk off a short pier and cool down a bit.

All I brought to this conversation was facts and personal experience. I happen to know a lot about this and have researched it for years. You do not have to smoke marijuana to know a lot about it.

If you have nothing better to contribute to this thread than personal attacks then quit wasting the kbs and go do something that makes you happy.

The_Dave don't you smoke ciggs? You know they are a drug and that they kill right? And there has never really been a dispute about that.

Who are you to wave your finger?
You must have been outta your head
Eye hole deep in muddy waters
You practically raised the dead
Rob the grave to snow the cradle
Then burn the evidence down
Soapbox house of cards and glass so
Don't go tossin' your stones around
You must have been high
Foot in mouth and head up ass
So whatcha talkin' 'bout?
Difficult to dance 'round this one
'til you pull it out. boy,
You must have been so high
Steal, borrow, refer, save your shady inference
Kangaroo done hung the jury with the innocent
Now you're weeping shades of cozened indigo
(Musta) got lemon juice up in your eye
When you pissed all over my black kettle.

You must have been high!
**I Never could have said it better than Maynard, myself*

[vanessalynn5484]

I am waiting to find out if my nan (who is like my mom) is having a heart attack so forgive me for being irked.

I do not drink and do not like alcohol much. Actually alcohol is pretty much good for nothing as far as I am concerned. Do I sit here and call you an alcoholic because you drink beer or know how beer is made for that matter? No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vanessalynn5484]

adm i would like to take an excerpt out of one of your previous posts


Education breeds understanding.
Understanding breeds acceptance.
Lack of education breeds ignorance.
Ignorance breeds contempt.
Contempt breeds wars. ............


.........Only then will we be any closer to us all being seen as 'equals' - not only in the eyes of our Gods, but in the eyes of each other.

After saying something like that how can you turn around and be so judgmental? Argh. Anyways I am done with this for now.

No hard feelings here, but come on, you must see a little bit of my point.

[Mandi]

I'm glad to see that you read some of the links - kudos to you for searching for the mythbusters that lead you to believe that pot is safe.....

The mind is a marvelous device. If you tell yourself something enough you'll believe it's the truth. That's how sociopaths pass the polygraph.

Happy toking - I'm sure you will all have a long and prosperous life. Someone needs to keep the pizza joints in business.

Searching for the mythbusters? Maybe you should put down whatever you're 'smoking'. It was a direct link that you gave. I have never in my life so much as tried pot. I just have a rather open mind about it, and happen to be educated about it enough to know that there aren't 600 chemicals in it. o.0 Maybe you should do some research, before you so openly insult people and spout off things you hope are true.

[The_Dave]

Cigarettes do kill, no doubt about that. Cigarettes also are LEGAL. As stupid as it is to smoke cigarettes, they are LEGAL. Buying drugs supports the criminal element that is destroying our world. Drugs are ILLEGAL. Bottom line. You may be able to possess a certain amount of pot before it is considered against the law, but you bought the drugs from a criminal, therefore you are a criminal for taking part in an illegal activity. Pot is THE gateway.

[vanessalynn5484]

It humors me how you ignore the entire argument I made on medicinal marijuana and personal growth.

Pot is not the gateway you do not need a gateway today. How long has it been since you were a teenager? Only 3 years for me and I have a step sis and step brother who are teens now.

Pot is a gateway like the tooth fairy left me that quarter.

And what are you talking about smoking ciggs does not contribute to illegal activity?? For a while in this city every time I turned around I saw people smoking smuggled ciggs. You can tell the difference with these ones. Easier to get than marijuana too I might add.
Cigarettes do kill, no doubt about that. Cigarettes also are LEGAL. As stupid as it is to smoke cigarettes, they are LEGAL. Buying drugs supports the criminal element that is destroying our world. Drugs are ILLEGAL. Bottom line. You may be able to possess a certain amount of pot before it is considered against the law, but you bought the drugs from a criminal, therefore you are a criminal for taking part in an illegal activity. Pot is THE gateway.

[sjchickie]

Vanessa, adm and the Dave have nothing left to say but rude and crude comments as they have been proved wrong. Dave the topic of discussion had nothing to do with the legal.vs. illegal comment. We were discussing the effects of pot. and seems i should be laughing at you?? the kids never started smoking pot as babies...it was a group of 70 people they followed from birth....as if they rolled joints for babys. WOW your bright???

ANYWAYS vanessa that ADM guy is 100% wrong the link he sent proved right there that he was wrong and mandi called him out about it. And again dave i am NOT contributing to criminal activity. I do not buy off a drug dealer...LOL second of all cigarettes are legal yes but every second person i see is smoking contraband smokes OH AND GUESS WHAT...the punishment Is WORSE for hording indian smokes than having 7g's of marijiuana. WONDER WHY????? :D:D....annnnnyways...vanessa it truly is pointless to talk any sense to such egotistical and pompus people.
I will not resort to being rude but the both of you need to stop blowing wind out your A*ssssssss and start realizing that we are not forcing our opinions and beliefs down your throats so stop being rude. her and i have you the proof you need....I have not convinced myself otherwise its true....ADM the site you gave even said it was false? Or can you read?

I am done with this discussion as rude people continue to make me laugh...watch out you will get an infraction ;)

[The_Dave]

sjchickie and vanessalynn5484, I do not buy illegal cigarettes first of all, because that helps the criminal element. ( I prefer to pay my taxes on legal smokes to help support the handouts that this country offers to those not willing to do for themselves ) Second of all, none of my comments are directed at you personally, I am responding to what you have told us all. You partake in an illegal activity. I do not agree with it and I am giving you my opinion. No matter how you try to sugar coat it, IT IS ILLEGAL.

[vanessalynn5484]

So what part of the illegal activity do I partake in?

And so far you have really not responded with anything besides IT'S ILLEGAL.

I agree that IT'S ILLEGAL. growth for personal medicinal uses should not be illegal....isn't that what I am talking about???

Hmmmm I always wonder how some people seem to think they know what I am saying better than I do myself when I am the one who actually said it.

[vanessalynn5484]

Well you made me ramble on I hope you got your kicks :p

I don't mind battling with The_Dave as he has eons of rude posts to back up what he's saying. That's just him :p

adm was just needlessly rude and really didn't read what we were talking about. Just because a thread is about pot doesn't mean you have the right to jump in and crap it up. If you have a thread about horses and I jumped in and told everyone about how I liked to make glue or how much I hate horse lovers because they smell would you find that appropriate?

I would like to think I have backed up enough of what I said to ask for respect when being addressed and "reefered" too

(see what I did there...took referred...made it into "reefered" clever hunh?)

LOL :D:rofl:

[The_Dave]

"growth for personal medicinal uses should not be illegal"

I agree, IF and only IF it prescibed by a Doctor, otherwise you would have everyone and their dog saying it is medicinal. Than the whole world would go to pot. ( no pun intended ).

If you do not believe pot is a gateway, go to any rehab centre and ask the people there what they first started using. I can guarantee that the majority will tell you pot.

vanessalynn5484 I was not saying you were doing anything illegal, I was responding to the comments. You and sjchickie were insinuating I buy illegal smokes though.

sjchickie, as for my post on who is rolling the joints for the babies, that was a JOKE. vanessalynn5484 got the joke, sorry you didn't.

[vanessalynn5484]

I didn't mean to insinuate you were buying the smokes just pointing out that ciggs do contribute to illegal activity. Like you said you have to pay tax on it so my children can enjoy the freedoms of this country.

Hats off to you for killing yourself slowly and helping the future of this fair nation! LOL I am just teasin. :rofl:

[The_Dave]

Hahahahahaha, I hear you loud and clear, it is stupid to smoke, but I am working on that, hopefully not too late.

[vanessalynn5484]

never too late of course ! Not if you do not think so. I wasn't trying to be hard on you either for smoking ciggs.

I get mad at the gov and the tobacco companies for producing it in the first place. Now that the government is taking a stand against it millions of people are already hooked!

[vanessalynn5484]

Something I do not know much about...can you grow your own tobacco or buy pure tobacco from the plant and smoke it? Would it be better for you than the stuff you buy at the store?

I always wondered that...I know you can get different types of loose tobacco from all around the world, but what I am wondering is can you produce your own? Secondly can you add menthol to it? *okay the 2nd part was a joke...*

[girdy]

Something I do not know much about...can you grow your own tobacco or buy pure tobacco from the plant and smoke it? Would it be better for you than the stuff you buy at the store?

I spent a summer picking tobacco in Southern Ontario, so have a bit of experience in what happens with the product. The plants are heavily laden with fertilizer and pesticide. Even the raw plant leaves the workers hands stained yellow, and you constantly are rolling balls of tar off your fingers and palms when you're picking. The leaves are picked and put in bundles, taken to the farm, dried, then sent to the factory for sorting, ground up, and laden with a few other chemicals for menthol, etc..

Notice I didn't say that the leaves were washed. All the chemicals put on them in the field remain on the leaves, along with the bird droppings, squashed bugs, and anything else that gets included along the way. I'll leave it to your imagination what a bunch of high school kids could add to a bundle of tobacco.

Perhaps someone grows "organic" tobacco which might be a little better - but the tar and nicotine, and probably a whole bunch of other harmful stuff are right in the raw product.

[adm]

[quote=Mandi;81986]It was a direct link that you gave. I have never in my life so much as tried pot. I just have a rather open mind about it, /quote]

Not sure why everyone is assuming that the links were ALL anti-pot. I have yet to defend it because I was just providing links for reference, and yes I read them.

I don't smoke pot, I quit smoking cigarettes 10 years ago and agree with vanessalynn's viewpoint on alcohol. Actually, alcohol is far more dangerous than pot (and I think y'all have figured out my viewpoint on THAT).

Everything has its place. Pot is dangerous because it IS a gateway drug, regardless of what anyone wants to believe. It's far more potent now than it was during the love-in's of the 60's, but it can alleviate pain in terminal patients. Alcohol leads to voilence, I've not yet heard of a domestic voilence case that did not involve alcohol, and far more people drink&drive than 'toke&fly'. I've worked with victims and offenders of both cases.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. While I don't agree with yours, I respect the fact that you have your convictions and stand up for them so vehemently.

[sjchickie]

Well ADM regardless of what you think I am gonna continue to smoke and i think by the time i die i will see it decriminalized more so than it already has been. Any true pot smoker knows that legalization would only hurt us then the goverment would control it like cigs.

I have said far to much on this topic ;) I am gonna puff ....4:20 is friday and the festivities are planned. :D so you guys do your thing and Ill do mine. I still have maintained that i have yet to be rude..

Vanessa and I both have made valid points, weather or not everyone likes the points is really not important. The gateway drug excuse is wearing thin on me though ...out of 15 friends...not one of them has had a drug problem and they leave there drug use to marijuana. 16 year old high school kids have easier access to cocaine and E than pot. TRUST ME :D

[vanessalynn5484]

I spent a summer picking tobacco in Southern Ontario, so have a bit of experience in what happens with the product. The plants are heavily laden with fertilizer and pesticide. Even the raw plant leaves the workers hands stained yellow, and you constantly are rolling balls of tar off your fingers and palms when you're picking. The leaves are picked and put in bundles, taken to the farm, dried, then sent to the factory for sorting, ground up, and laden with a few other chemicals for menthol, etc..

Notice I didn't say that the leaves were washed. All the chemicals put on them in the field remain on the leaves, along with the bird droppings, squashed bugs, and anything else that gets included along the way. I'll leave it to your imagination what a bunch of high school kids could add to a bundle of tobacco.

Perhaps someone grows "organic" tobacco which might be a little better - but the tar and nicotine, and probably a whole bunch of other harmful stuff are right in the raw product.

That is the best anti-smoking argument (I know you weren't posting for this agenda, only responding to my question) I have read in a long time. Really puts things in perspective:eek:. No wonder they cause cancer and stink and cling to your skin and clothes.

I found your response very interesting thank you very much for the information. I am going to try and find out more about organic tobacco just because I am naturally curious. I know it would still have the bad elements, but maybe at least it wouldn't be so deadly.

[The_Dave]

vanessalynn5484, only for special people. hehe, I wasn't trying to be mean either, just truthful. I calls em as I sees em.

[vanessalynn5484]

LOL I was joking anyways. ;) That was not that mean you are right. It was more of a general comment on my part not really relating to the specific thread. I got it all taken care of anyways.
:D

[tred816]

I found this thread to be very interesting. Lots of squabbling, but perhaps that adds to the fun of reading it. lol

When people refer to it as a "gateway" drug they aren't saying that EVERYONE who smokes pot chooses to walk through the gate. They are saying that it's a proven *fact* that the majority of heavy drug users began with pot and worked their way up.

I've heard many arguments 'for' and 'against' pot, but one of my greatest fears is that they will legalize it and some doctor or dentist is going to be high as they perform surgery. If it's legalized, it would be ok for them to be high as they work.:eek: Does anyone else consider where they should draw the line and HOW they could if it was legal? I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't like the idea of having some stoned surgeon working on me...:(

Regular urinalises would be inappropriate and considering pot would then be legal... why should it be ok for one profession if not for another etc....

It's a really touchy subject.

Overall though, pot isn't all that bad for you. On a mental level, if you need it to feel good, that's unfortunate, but lots of people drink to feel good too... I eat chocolate. It's probably more of a health hazzard than pot! :rofl: I try not to be judgemental on the topic because preaching doesn't get you anywhere.

Balance is the key. If you use once in a while, no biggie as long as you're not hurting anyone, who really cares? But The Dave had a good point...as long as you are using, you are keeping the criminals employed.

Smokers don't have to chose to buy illegal cigarettes. I suppose that's why people are pushing for it to be legal.

If everyone who did it was responsible and only did it on their own time...I really wouldn't care if they legalized it.

One fact remains and I think someone else referred to it earlier, when we ourselves are addicts or even just like to do something, we will justify it so it makes us feel like it's ok and alleviates any feelings of wrong doing.

Smokers do it, drinkers do it, overeaters do it etc...

[vanessalynn5484]

I found this thread to be very interesting. Lots of squabbling, but perhaps that adds to the fun of reading it. lol

When people refer to it as a "gateway" drug they aren't saying that EVERYONE who smokes pot chooses to walk through the gate. They are saying that it's a proven *fact* that the majority of heavy drug users began with pot and worked their way up.

I've heard many arguments 'for' and 'against' pot, but one of my greatest fears is that they will legalize it and some doctor or dentist is going to be high as they perform surgery. If it's legalized, it would be ok for them to be high as they work.:eek: Does anyone else consider where they should draw the line and HOW they could if it was legal? I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't like the idea of having some stoned surgeon working on me...:(

Regular urinalises would be inappropriate and considering pot would then be legal... why should it be ok for one profession if not for another etc....

It's a really touchy subject.

Overall though, pot isn't all that bad for you. On a mental level, if you need it to feel good, that's unfortunate, but lots of people drink to feel good too... I eat chocolate. It's probably more of a health hazzard than pot! :rofl: I try not to be judgemental on the topic because preaching doesn't get you anywhere.

Balance is the key. If you use once in a while, no biggie as long as you're not hurting anyone, who really cares? But The Dave had a good point...as long as you are using, you are keeping the criminals employed.

Smokers don't have to chose to buy illegal cigarettes. I suppose that's why people are pushing for it to be legal.

If everyone who did it was responsible and only did it on their own time...I really wouldn't care if they legalized it.

One fact remains and I think someone else referred to it earlier, when we ourselves are addicts or even just like to do something, we will justify it so it makes us feel like it's ok and alleviates any feelings of wrong doing.

Smokers do it, drinkers do it, overeaters do it etc...
I basically agree with just about everything you said. I would just like to give my opinion a couple of topics.

The first being the point that you mentioned about doctors and dentists. I had a loved on in AA (and it is not all alcoholics who attend meetings) and there were dentists and doctors there struggling with everything from cocaine addiction to alcoholism. A doctor could be high now and operating on you if that is how he chooses to deal with the pressure and he would have the money and connections to gain access to any type of drug he wanted :(

Regular urinalysis would not be very accurate unless they could be conducted for everyone on an individual basis and patterns of consistency would have to monitored. I say this because THC remains in fatty cells for a long, long time. If they legalized it and say my roomie smoked a joint in our living room and I happened to be sitting there my urine would then show THC. They would need to find a better way of ascertaining that you were under the influence if you were to legalize it I'd think. There is just not enough concrete research on it yet, but I have seen it give new life to a Man with MS and a man with cancer.

I've also seen it be used as an escape and ruin lives. If you are self-destructive tred is right you can do anything to the extreme and mess up your entire life.

A knife is just a knife, but in the hands of a wrong person it's a weapon.

Which is why I do not think that pot is a "soft drug" or it is "not a big deal". It comes off that way because of my arguments, but I just think that I was being unfairly judged and people weren't looking beyond that and seeing I was posting info. The history of Marijuana is fascinating and most of the problems only occurred when it became illegal. Funny, but true...

[girdy]

I've heard many arguments 'for' and 'against' pot, but one of my greatest fears is that they will legalize it and some doctor or dentist is going to be high as they perform surgery. If it's legalized, it would be ok for them to be high as they work.:eek: Does anyone else consider where they should draw the line and HOW they could if it was legal? I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't like the idea of having some stoned surgeon working on me...:(

Alcohol is legal, aren't you worried about your dentist or doctor being drunk?

I think many of the posters can't seem to appreciate that there are recreational pot smokers to the same extent that there are recreational drinkers. I don't smoke pot, but when I have some friends over for a poker game I'll have a few beers. Just because I'll have a couple of beers on a Saturday night, doesn't mean that I'm going to be on a bender and be impaired the rest of my life. That someone smokes a joint on a Saturday night, doesn't mean that they're going to be stoned the rest of their life either.

There are so many things that can impair a person, emotional, physical, and chemical. Jeez, any heavy smokers who haven't lit up in a while are in a sense of impairment, because their body is craving a fix. I guess we should be concerned if our dentist smokes, and hasn't had one for a while when we're in the chair.

There are impairment standards for alcohol, they'll develop something similar for pot. Maybe there already is one. But notwithstanding that, there is always the persons personal decision not to be impaired. I choose not to drink at work, hopefully your dentist does too. Same thing applies for pot.

[vanessalynn5484]

Effects of varying marijuana potency on deposition of tar and delta9-THC in the lung during smoking. Pharmacol Biochem Behav
Vol 58 (No. 4) Dec 1997; 1145-1150
by P. Matthias; D.P. Tashkin; J.A. Marques-Magallanes; J.N. Wilkins; M.S. Simmons


To determine whether smoking more, compared to less, potent marijuana (MJ) cigarettes to a desired level of intoxication ("high") reduces pulmonary exposure to noxious smoke components, in 10 habitual smokers of MJ, we measured respiratory delivery and deposition of tar and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), carboxyhemoglobin (COHb) boost, smoking topography, including cumulative puff volume (CPV) and breathholding time, change in heart rate (deltaHR) and "high" during ad lib smoking of 0, 1.77, and 3.95% MJ cigarettes on 3 separate days. At each session, subjects had access to only a single MJ cigarette. On average, smoking topography and COHb boost did not differ across the different strengths of MJ, while THC delivery, as well as HR, were significantly greater (p < 0.01) and tar deposition significantly less (p < 0.03) for 3.95% than 1.77% MJ. Although individual adaptations in smoking topography for 3.95% compared to 1.77% MJ were highly variable, three subjects with the lowest 3.95% MJ:1.77% MJ ratios for CPV also displayed the lowest 3.95% MJ:1.77% MJ ratios for tar deposition. In vitro studies using a standardized smoking technique revealed a mean 25% lower tar yield from 3.95% than 1.77% MJ (p < 0.05), but no difference between 1.77% and 0% marijuana. Under the conditions of this study, we conclude that tar delivery is reduced relative to THC content in a minority of subjects, and this reduction appears to be due to a reduced intake of smoke (decreased CPV) and/or a reduced tar yield from the stronger MJ preparation.

[vanessalynn5484]

Cannabis Science: Cannabinoid Derivative Protects Neurons The Lancet
Vol 348 (No. 9039) Nov 23 1996
by Rachelle H B Fishman



A cannabinoid derivative, dexanabinol (HU-211), could be the first neuroprotective agent to be approved for human use. If it is successful it might become a "standard inclusion in the kit bag of every medic and ambulance", says neurosurgeon Nachshon Knoller (Tel Hashomer,Israel). Dexanabinol is a non-psychotropic derivative of a synthetic family of tetrahydrocannabinoid analogues. The drug has three independent mechanisms of action: it blocks glutamate-induced neurotoxicity; it scavenges both peroxy and hydroxy free-radicals; and it inhibits the action of the inflammatory cytokine alpha-tumour necrosis factor. "The triple action stops the spread of the primary neuronal damage from the core of injury to the surrounding brain tissue, even after a single intravenous injection, up to 6 hours after the initial insult", says Raphael Mechoulam, professor of pharmacology, Hadassah Medical School, Jerusalem, Israel.
The results of a UK phase I clinical trial showing lack of adverse reactions to dexanabinol and results from earlier animal studies were presented on Nov 15 in Washington, DC, USA, at the annual meeting of the Society of Neurotrauma. A phase II clinical study of dexanabinol started in Israel on Nov 9, under the auspices of the American Brain Injury Consortium, in patients with severe head injury exhibiting abnormal computed tomography scans and requiring intracranial pressure monitoring.

[vanessalynn5484]

House of Lords Session 1997-98
Publications on the internet (http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld/ldpubns.htm)
Science and Technology Committee Publications (http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld/ldsctech.htm) Science and Technology - Ninth Report
CHAPTER 5 MEDICAL USE OF CANNABIS AND CANNABINOIDS: REVIEW OF THE EVIDENCE

DRONABINOL
Dronabinol is THC. It is marketed as Marinol, synthetic D9-THC in sesame oil, supplied in soft gelatine capsules (to be taken by mouth) containing 2.5, 5 or 10mg of THC. It is licensed in the USA as an anti-emetic, and also to stimulate the appetite of AIDS patients. Marinol is manufactured by Unimed Pharmaceuticals Inc. in the USA; it is significantly more expensive than nabilone (Notcutt Q 427). It is not licensed as an anti-emetic here; but in 1995, on WHO advice, it was moved from Schedule 1 to Schedule 2 of the 1985 Regulations (by the Misuse of Drugs (Amendment) Regulations 1995, No. 2048), and may therefore be prescribed on the named-patient basis defined in the 1985 Regulations (see Box 6).
In a 1997 survey in the USA, only 6 per cent of 1,500 oncologists said they had prescribed dronabinol in the previous year (Brett p 204, cp Hall p 222). According to the BMA, take-up in the United Kingdom is low, because of the administrative obstacles and the availability of good alternatives (Q 83). According to Dr Notcutt of James Paget Hospital, Great Yarmouth (Q 422), it is not in practice available in the United Kingdom at present. 5.14 Dr Notcutt is currently treating patients suffering from intractable pain with nabilone, on an unlicensed basis. He has treated a total of 60 patients with a variety of chronic pain conditions, including MS, cancer, peripheral nerve damage and spinal lesions. As many as 50 per cent have derived some pain relief from nabilone, but a significant number of patients are unable to tolerate the side effects of the drug (unpleasant psychoactive effects and drowsiness) (Q 400) and the overall success rate is about 30 per cent (p 104).


5.15 Cannabis has been advocated to treat anorexia, but the scientific basis of this remains unclear. In normal subjects cannabis intake is followed about three hours later by an increased appetite ("the munchies"), particularly for sweet foods (Pertwee Q 256). Regular users of cannabis, however, become tolerant to this effect and appetite may even be depressed. According to the BMA report clinical trials have failed to establish any beneficial effect of THC on appetite in patients with anorexia nervosa. However, in controlled clinical trials in patients with advanced AIDS*related illnesses, dronabinol significantly reduced nausea, prevented further weight loss and improved patients' mood. On the basis of such data the US Food and Drug Administration have licensed dronabinol for the treatment of anorexia associated with AIDS; Dr Robson sees this as "the most compelling indication" for cannabis-based medicines (Q 458).


5.16 There is a concern with regard to the use of cannabinoids in AIDS because of the possible immunosuppressive effects of these drugs (BMA QQ 79, 80, Hall Q 742). Such effects could be damaging in patients whose immune system is already compromised, although there is no evidence of any relationship between cannabis use and the rate of progression to AIDS in HIV*positive men (Robson Q 460).


5.17 The BMA report recommends that the licensed indications for nabilone be extended to preventing weight loss and treating anorexia in patients with cancer or AIDS, and that dronabinol should be licensed in this country for this indication. As noted already, this would depend on application by the manufacturers; in the mean time, doctors may prescribe "off-label" at their own risk. Dronabinol is a controlled drug, listed in Schedule 2 to the Misuse of Drugs Regulations (see Box 2); so prescription would have to be on the "named-patient" basis defined in the Regulations (see Box 6).


Multiple sclerosis
5.19 The Multiple Sclerosis Society has in its membership 35,000 of the total of 85,000 patients suffering from this disease in the United Kingdom. The Society estimate that more than 1 per cent of these patients, and possibly as many as 3-4 per cent, are illegally using cannabis for relief of symptoms (Q 341). Representatives of the Society described for us the commonest symptoms of the disease. Fatigue is the most frequent in 95 per cent of patients, followed by balance problems (84 per cent), muscle weakness (81 per cent), incontinence (76 per cent), muscle spasms (66 per cent), pain (61 per cent) and tremor (35 per cent) (Q 334). Although the interferons (alpha and beta) are proving to be of some value in relapsing-remitting and progressive cases of the disease, these symptoms are still poorly controlled by existing treatments, and no cure has been found.

5.20 Dr Lorna Layward of the Multiple Sclerosis Society, and Dr Pertwee, reviewed for us the six published clinical trials of cannabis or cannabinoids in MS. These have involved small numbers of patients (a total of 41 subjects world*wide), but some positive results have been reported, especially for spasticity, pain associated with spasticity, tremor and urinary bladder control (QQ 262, 372). Dr Pertwee took part in the study of perceived effects of cannabis on MS noted above: in a postal survey of 112 MS patients self*medicating with cannabis in the United Kingdom and the USA, more than 90 per cent reported a beneficial effect on spasticity, and many also reported pain relief and improved urinary control (Q 262).

5.21 Dr Layward and Dr Pertwee referred to experimental results in animals which offer a scientific basis for the use of cannabis and cannabinoids in the treatment of MS. In an MS*like disease in mice (experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis), low doses of cannabinoids alleviate the muscle tremor seen in such animals. Cannabinoids also suppress spinal cord reflexes in animals (QQ 262, 356).

5.22 It is natural to wonder whether the beneficial effects of cannabis reported by MS patients might simply be related to the feeling of well-being caused by the intoxicant properties of the drug. Clare Hodges said that cannabis greatly helped her physical symptoms, specifically the relief of discomfort in bladder and spine, and relief from nausea and tremors (Q 98). "Cannabis helps my body relax. I function and move much easier. The physical effects are very clear. It is not just a vague feeling of well-being". She positively prefers to avoid intoxication, and feels able to control the dose of cannabis to obtain physical relief without getting high (p 27, Q 98; cp LMMSG p 270). Professor Wall likened this to the experience of patients using self*administered morphine or related narcotics for pain control, who control the dose to achieve a bearable level of pain without muddled thinking (Q 98).

5.23 The BMA report concluded, "It is somewhat paradoxical that cannabinoids are reported to be of therapeutic value in neurological disorders...since very similar symptoms can be caused by cannabis itself...it is not clear how much of the reputed effects of cannabis in motor disorders are due to psychoactive or analgesic effects". Nevertheless, it recommended that "A high priority should be given to carefully controlled trials of cannabinoids in patients with chronic spastic disorders which have not responded to other drugs". This view is shared by many of our witnesses.

5.24 The BMA report calls for the extension of the licensed indications for nabilone, and for the licensing of dronabinol, for use in MS and other chronic spastic disorders unresponsive to standard drugs. The wording of the report is ambiguous: on p 9 it says, "Depending on the results of...trials there may be a case for considering extension of the indications..."; on p 80 it says, "There is a case for the extension of the indications" for such use pending trials. The latter is repeated in the BMA's written evidence to us (p 10). According to Professor Ashton the ambiguity is inadvertent; and a letter from Professor Nathanson of the BMA (p 206) confirms that the BMA does indeed support licensing pending further research.

5.25 The National Drug Prevention Alliance suggest that this ambiguity reflects disagreement between Professor Ashton, the main author, and editors at the BMA. They would regard licensing in advance of trials as "an extraordinary aberration" (p 279). The Christian Institute say it would set "a very bad precedent" (p 208). In any case, the MCA are not prepared to allow anecdotal evidence as a substitute for clinical trials (QQ 168, 178, 189); and no application to extend the licence for nabilone has in fact been made (Q 191).

[rhiley_08j]

Wow Vanessa I am really impressed on the info you know about Marijuana. Maybe you might know about this than. When I was a child I was diagnosed with ADHD but my mother refused to put me on any medication. When I was about 18, I started to smoke marijuana, which I found made it easier for me to concentrate. Everyone said that I was full of it, but yet when I was in college, and I was smoking it, my marks were all A's, when my girlfriend talked me into quiting, my marks dropped remarkably because I couldn't concentrate. Coincidence, I think not.

I think that eventually pot will become legal if that's what people want. I think it is just like alcohol. A little bit makes you relaxed, a lot clouds your judgement and get's you whacked.

[tred816]

Alcohol is legal, aren't you worried about your dentist or doctor being drunk?

I think many of the posters can't seem to appreciate that there are recreational pot smokers to the same extent that there are recreational drinkers. I don't smoke pot, but when I have some friends over for a poker game I'll have a few beers. Just because I'll have a couple of beers on a Saturday night, doesn't mean that I'm going to be on a bender and be impaired the rest of my life. That someone smokes a joint on a Saturday night, doesn't mean that they're going to be stoned the rest of their life either.

There are so many things that can impair a person, emotional, physical, and chemical. Jeez, any heavy smokers who haven't lit up in a while are in a sense of impairment, because their body is craving a fix. I guess we should be concerned if our dentist smokes, and hasn't had one for a while when we're in the chair.

There are impairment standards for alcohol, they'll develop something similar for pot. Maybe there already is one. But notwithstanding that, there is always the persons personal decision not to be impaired. I choose not to drink at work, hopefully your dentist does too. Same thing applies for pot.

Good points girdy. My reasons for being concerned are the lack of obvious signs when pot is involved.

Harder drugs and alcohol cause the user to stumble, slur and alcohol smells. With pot, it's easier to hide and not easily proven when someone has been smoking it.

Either way, I'm on the fence because I see both sides.

I agree with VanessaLynn as well...doctors could be doing these things now, but if pot were legal, my point was that it would be OK to do it whereas under current circumstances it would be considered malpractice if your doctor did perform under the influence, whether anyone caught on or not.

lol...I hope if my doc is doing drugs or a raging alcoholic that he is REALLY good at what he does and I never figure it out! :rofl:

[vanessalynn5484]

You are not the first person I know to tell me something similar. Marijuana must effect the parts of your brain which control concentration and such. Since you probably have rapid brain activity, I'd imagine once the receptors of THC in these parts of the brain are full they would produce a more relaxed pace of brain activity.

For the benefit of the skeptics I will point out that one of the symptoms of marijuana withdrawal is lack of concentration- but it sounds to me you were not worse off than when you started and the withdrawal symptoms would not last forever.

That is just a theory, but plausible.

I do not know a marijuana smoker who is uneducated, "simple", "dumb" or "acts fried". Maybe because smart people are overthinkers and marijuana give them a clear mind and the ability to tap into things they couldn't as it also lowers inhibitions. This is a positive reaction in your case.
Think about all the amazing music that was written under the influence of marijuana.

Again it's a personal choice and not for everyone.

I'd much rather be hanging around with someone who is high than drunk! Atleast if you are sober and hanging around with someone who is high you can still have a good time-in my opinion. I have never had a good time with a drunk friend when I was completely sober :( Not since I was a teenager anyways.

[vanessalynn5484]

Allow me to be candid.

The lowering of inhibitions is not a bad thing for some and may not effect their work at all. It's too much of a slippery slope to say it's okay. I know how quickly a tolerance can be built up and the effects can be mild on some. Again too much of a slippery slope to say it's okay.

I am aware that there is Hydro that could blow even the most experienced "pothead's" mind so like I said it's a slippery slope...

If marijuana were legal it most certainly should be illegal to work under the influence as is the same with alcohol or any other drugs. Girdy brings up a very good point about ciggs though.....

[vanessalynn5484]

MPP Quoted in Dow Jones Article on Medical Marijuana (http://www.mpp.org/site/c.glKZLeMQIsG/b.2670747/k.D896/MPP_Quoted_in_Dow_Jones_Article_on_Medical_Marijua na/lookup.asp?)
The medical and legal systems are just catching up with what some patients say is a critical last resort for pain management. Despite being at odds with federal drug policy, a growing number of states are willing to protect patients like [Phillip] Alden from the threat of arrest or criminal prosecution when they use marijuana for medicinal purposes. (April 16, 2007)



Feds Seize Montana Woman's Medical Marijuana (http://www.mpp.org/site/c.glKZLeMQIsG/b.2665743/k.17/Feds_Seize_Montana_Womans_Medical_Marijuana/lookup.asp?)

MISSOULA, MONTANA — On March 30, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents in Missoula seized 20 grams of mailed medical marijuana en route to Robin Prosser ... The seizure marks the first time federal drug officials have tangled with Montana's medical marijuana patients, who've been protected under state law since November 2004. However, the DEA's involvement appears to mirror a national targeting of medical marijuana patients in other states since June 2005, when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled federal officials can ignore state laws permitting the sick and dying to use marijuana with doctors' recommendations. (April 12, 2007)

[vanessalynn5484]

Medical Marijuana Laws Don't Increase Teen Marijuana Use, Study Shows (http://www.mpp.org/site/c.glKZLeMQIsG/b.1493403/apps/nl/content2.asp?content_id=%7B617C84A7-360B-40B9-8336-A418CC79E03E%7D&notoc=1)
SPRINGFIELD, ILLINOIS — State medical marijuana laws do not increase teen use of marijuana, a new analysis of government data shows. Contrary to claims made by opponents of medical marijuana legislation in Minnesota, the report finds that no state with laws protecting medical marijuana patients has experienced a statistically significant increase in teen marijuana use. (April 9, 2007)

[rhiley_08j]

I just wanted to clarify for those that are not familar with marijuana. For the first couple of times that you smoke it, you do get whacked. But after a while it almost becomes a "balancer" so to speak. Many people find that when they are "stoned" they can concentrate more, and are able to do alot of activities better than when they are not high. Also, it really bothers me when people say that marijuana is a "gateway" drug. All things, whether it be weed, alcohol, or even harder drugs, are a choice. It's up to you whether you make that choice or not.

[tred816]

I'd much rather be hanging around with someone who is high than drunk! Atleast if you are sober and hanging around with someone who is high you can still have a good time-in my opinion. I have never had a good time with a drunk friend when I was completely sober :( Not since I was a teenager anyways.

good point lol

[tred816]

All things, whether it be weed, alcohol, or even harder drugs, are a choice. It's up to you whether you make that choice or not.


This is totally true, but when a person turns to drugs to solve their problems (especially in teens and young adults) the gateway looks pretty appealing to them. This is the reason, in my opinion, the expression comes into play.

Unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible people out there who give it the bad name.

[vanessalynn5484]

This is totally true, but when a person turns to drugs to solve their problems (especially in teens and young adults) the gateway looks pretty appealing to them. This is the reason, in my opinion, the expression comes into play.

Unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible people out there who give it the bad name.
But it's easier for teens to get high on pills these days :-( They do not smell, easy to conceal, and the high is discreet (well I guess that depends, I wouldn't say an "e" high is very discreet). They are tiny and can be concealed in their own prescription bottles.

I have seen a person go into a coma from one bad pill :(

That is why I say young people do not need a gateway, but I agree with your points tred.

[rhiley_08j]

I don't really think that weed is a drug that most use to solve their problems, I just think that is an enjoyment that helps to enlighten your senses.

[vanessalynn5484]

Well I'd have to disagree there rhiley because I do know people who use it to escape their problems. But one bad apple doesn't ruin the whole bunch in my eyes anyways. I am glad they use marijuana instead of alcohol or crack and it doesn't effect their lives extremely.

I was 7 when I realized it wasn't just tomato plants in the greenhouse behind my house..... (back then I lived in a place out of the way). Like I said before I DO NOT raise my kids this way and never want to expose them to any intoxicants. I am not stupid and realize it will happen eventually, but if I caught my children using drugs as teenagers I think first I would kick their ass and then deal with the situation accordingly. It would be a lot of work on my behalf, but they are my boys, and I do not want them to run theirselves into the ground with "underground" activities as it seems to have been a past trend with some family members :p

I want to be like Sober the Saskwatch (spelling??) my children should both love and fear me. (It's from Weeds Season 2...and I bet I am the only one who gets it and look a little bit crazy.....lol)

[vanessalynn5484]

http://www.showcase.ca/weeds/

[vanessalynn5484]

Marijuana Facts for Teens : http://www.mentalhealth.com/book/p45-mari.html#Top
Keep in mind it is full of scare tactics...which is fine because it is spun in a way to sway teens from trying it, which is A+ in my books.
Taken from the above link:
Q: Does marijuana lead to the use of other drugs?

A: Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana. Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs. However, most marijuana users do not go on to use other illegal drugs.




Q: What if a person wants to quit using the drug?

A: Up until a few years ago, it was hard to find treatment programs specifically for marijuana users.
Now researchers are testing different ways to help marijuana users abstain from drug use. There are currently no medications for treating marijuana dependence. Treatment programs focus on counseling and group support systems. There are also a number of programs designed especially to help teenagers who are abusers. Family doctors are also a good source for information and help in dealing with adolescent marijuana problems.

[sjchickie]

rhiley...I was just looking in my phys. Book about what you were asking about ADHD. And apparently things like OCD, ADHD, and TS (tourette's) weed can help offset the tic's found in Tourette's the comulsiveness weakens in your OCD and you dont feel as jumpy all the time....and as for ADD and ADHD, especially in the hyperactive disorder it can help relax and restrain the person from things such as easy irritability and racings thoughts.

I agree for me weed is 100% a meditation thing, when im having trouble studying if i smoke one i feel relaxed and I am able to take the information in. I mean dont get me wrong all drugs are bad but i Dont see pot as a drug. and as for doctors working on us a high WOW there are probably thousands in this country alone addicted to heroin, crack, coke, and we dont even know. Has anyone never watching intervention? where on 3 episodes doctors who still ran a practice were addicted. I would MUCH rather have my doc high on the pot than on Crack!!!! hallucinating and going on.

People have a mis conception about pot because of people who mix alcohol and pot together. In my opinion they are already so drunk that the drug makes them sick and makes them beam!!!!!! Then they go around the 3 mile screaming IM SO HIGHHHHHHHHHH....seriously head to a bar with drunks who dont normally toke. For me after smoking for as long as i have the effects have worn to a mild euphoric feeling of calmness and meditation.

Seriously people use pot as a way or mediating and finding there inner selves. The body reacts differently to different things and i have met people who can not handle pot. Anyone ever head of Selvia D?? its a completely LEGAL herb that you can buy that if you take in a bowl full seriously people go temporarily insane...ive seen it happen. Yet this is legal and pot is not????? You dont see any articles in the paper saying pot head crashed car and killed 2 people. WHY? cause pot doesnt impair your judgement the way booze does

[friskeywhiskey]

I can not believe that anyone would believe that if pot was to become legalized that it would be ok for someone to be under the influence while at work. Alcohol is legal and the last time I checked if you were to show be to work drinking you would no longer have a job.
As far as being able to detect that someone is under the influence of pot I do believe that when the idea of legalizing most recently came about one of the main sticking points to not legalize (besides the point of our southern neighbours being so opposed to the idea) was that we need a reliable non intrusive method of testing drivers that may be under the influence of pot. I do believe that there is active research in this area at this time,. hopefully they will come out with something soon.
As far as pot being a gateway drug, come on. Look at what we give our children pop and guess what caffeine is the prime ingredient that keeps us going back for more. Caffeine is a stimulant drug, it speeds us up. Ritalin which is prescribed to our children regularly is only 1 molecule diferent from cocaine it is even chemically shaped the same. Ritalin is a stimulant and some studies have shown that children who take ritalin, as adults will develop an addiction to other stimulants. Nicotine is also a drug that keeps us coming back for more cigarettes. Alcohol is a drug that has depressant and stimulant qualities despite it actually being a depressant. One of these others is most certainly the actual gateway drug not pot.
Some studies have shown that chronic pot smoking can actually bring on psychosis.
I do not smoke pot. I have tried it when I was younger it just was not for me. From my experience spending time with people that do smoke, if you are abusing the substance you have a problem. It is most likely affecting
several areas of your life whether the person would like to admit it or not. Just the same as abuse of any substance would. If you are using it responsibility on a infrequent basis then there is not a problem as with any substance.
In this day in age I can not understand how some people see nothing wrong with going out say 1 or 2 twice a week drinking alcohol to the point they are drunk but then the same people condem person you does the same with pot.
Pot does impair your judgement in driving a vehicle. It slows your reaction time. It may not be the exact same as alcohol but it does impair your judgement as does several prescription medications (which clearly state that you are not not operate a motor vehicle/machinary while taking this medication). If you (pro pot people) ever want others to take you seriously and sway other people into the idea of legalization then the pro pot people have to recognize that you just cannot toke and drive. It is as foolish as people in the 70's driving around the neighbourhood with beer bottles hanging out their windows and some people even today believing that there is nothing wrong with having a few beers then driving cause they are not drunk. Clearly their judgement is impaired on this subject. Also, you have to worry about what else you are taking with you joint as with any drug if you say have a joint, a beer, a tylenol then add whatever prescription medication you are taking the combo affects of all drugs combined have to be taken into consideration.

[vanessalynn5484]

I
Some studies have shown that chronic pot smoking can actually bring on psychosis.


This is a myth.

[vanessalynn5484]

Marijuana Myths, Claim No. 13
CLAIM #13: MARIJUANA IS A "GATEWAY" TO THE USE OF OTHER DRUGS
Advocates of marijuana prohibition claim that even if marijuana itself causes minimal harm, it is a dangerous substance because it leads to the use of "harder drugs" such as heroin, LSD, and cocaine.
THE FACTS
Most users of heroin, LSD and cocaine have used marijuana. However, most marijuana users never use another illegal drug.
Over time, there has been no consistent relationship between the use patterns of various drugs. *83As marijuana use increased in the 1960s and 1970s, heroin use declined. And, when marijuana use declined in the 1980s, heroin use remained fairly stable. For the past 20 years, as marijuana use-rates fluctuated, the use of LSD hardly changed at all.
Cocaine use increased in the early 1980s as marijuana use was declining. During the late 1980s, both marijuana and cocaine declined. During the last few years, cocaine use has continued to decline as marijuana use has increased slightly.
In 1994, less than 16% of high school seniors who had ever tried marijuana had ever tried cocaine - the lowest percentage ever recorded. In fact, as shown below, the proportion of marijuana users trying cocaine has declined steadily since 1986, when a high of more than 33% was recorded.
Proportion of Marijuana Users Ever Trying Cocaine
High School Seniors, 1975-1994 *84
1975: 19% 1980: 27% 1985: 31% 1990: 22%
1976: 19% 1981: 28% 1986: 33% 1991: 22%
1977: 20% 1982: 27% 1987: 30% 1992: 18%
1978: 22% 1983: 28% 1988: 26% 1993: 17%
1979: 25% 1984: 29% 1989: 23% 1994: 16%
In short, there is no inevitable relationship between the use of marijuana and other drugs. This fact is supported by data from other countries. In the Netherlands, for example, although marijuana prevalence among young people increased during the past decade, cocaine use decreased - and remains considerably lower than in the United States. Whereas approximately 16% of youthful marijuana users in the U.S. have tried cocaine, the comparable figure for Dutch youth is 1.8 percent. *85 Indeed, the Dutch policy of allowing marijuana to be purchased openly in government-regulated "coffee shops" was designed specifically to separate young marijuana users from illegal markets where heroin and cocaine are sold. 86*

*83. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Main Findings 1990; U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Preliminary Estimates from the 1993 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse.

*84. Johnston, L.D. et al, Monitoring the Future, Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Institute for Social Research (1994).

*85. Cohen, P.D.A., Cannabisgebruikers in Amsterdam, Jaarbeurs Congrescentrum Utrecht (1995).

*86. Leuw, E. and Marshall, I.H. (eds)., Between Prohibition and Legalization: The Dutch Experiment in Drug Policy, Amsterdam: Kugler Publications (1994).

[vanessalynn5484]

7) Is marijuana going to make my boyfriend go psycho? Marijuana does not `cause' psychosis. Psychotic people can smoke marijuana and have an episode, but there is nothing in marijuana that actually initiates or increases these episodes. Of course, if any mentally ill person is given marijuana for the first time or without their knowledge, they might get scared and `freak.' Persons who suffer from severe psychological disorders often use marijuana as a way of coping. Because of this, some researchers have assumed that marijuana is the cause of these problems, when it is actually a symptom. If you have heard that marijuana makes people go crazy, this is probably why.Excerpted from Cannabis FAQ
Version: 1.0 by Brian S. Julin
© 1994

[vanessalynn5484]

9) Is it true that marijuana makes you lazy and unmotivated? Not if you are a responsible adult, it doesn't. Ask the U.S. Army. They did a study and showed no effect. If this were true, why would many Eastern cultures, and Jamaicans, use marijuana to help them work harder? `Amotivational syndrome' started as a media myth based on a racial stereotype. The prohibitionists claimed that marijuana made people worthless and sluggish. Since then, however, it has been scientifically researched, and a symptom resembling amotivational syndrome has actually been found. However, it only occurs in adolescent teenagers -- adults are not affected. When a person reaches adolescence, their willingness to work usually increases, but this does not happen for teenagers using marijuana regularly -- even just on the weekends. The actual studies involved monkeys, not humans, and the results are not verified, but older studies which tried to show `amotivational syndrome' usually only suceeded when they studied adolescents. Adults are not effected.
The symptoms are not permanent, and motivation returns to normal levels several months after marijuana smoking stops. However, a small number of people may be unusually sensitive to this effect. One of the monkeys in the experiment was severely amotivated and did not recover. Doctors will need to study this more before they know why.
Excerpted from Cannabis FAQ Version: 1.0 by Brian S. Julin
© 1994

[vanessalynn5484]

3) Doesn't Marijuana cause brain damage? The short answer: No. The long answer: The reason why you ask this is because you probably heard or read somewhere that marijuana damages brain cells, or makes you stupid. These claims are untrue.
The first one -- marijuana kills brain cells -- is based on research done during the second Reefer Madness Movement. A study attempted to show that marijuana smoking damaged brain structures in monkeys. However, the study was poorly performed and it was severely criticized by a medical review board. Studies done afterwards failed to show any brain damage, in fact a very recent study on Rhesus monkeys used technology so sensitive that scientists could actually see the effect of learning on brain cells, and it found no damage.
But this was Reefer Madness II, and the prohibitionists were looking around for anything they could find to keep the marijuana legalization movement in check, so this study was widely used in anti-marijuana propaganda. It was recanted later.
(To this day, the radical anti-drug groups, like P.R.I.D.E. and Dr. Gabriel Nahas, still use it -- In fact, America's most popular drug education program, Drug Abuse Resistance Education, claims that marijuana ``can impair memory perception & judgement by destroying brain cells.'' When police and teachers read this and believe it, our job gets really tough, since it takes a long time to explain to children how Ms. Jones and Officer Bob were wrong.)
The truth is, no study has ever demonstrated cellular damage, stupidity, mental impairment, or insanity brought on specifically by marijuana use -- even heavy marijuana use. This is not to say that it cannot be abused, however.

4) If it doesn't kill brain cells, how does it get you `high'? Killing brain cells is not a pre-requisite for getting `high.' Marijuana contains a chemical which substitutes for a natural brain chemical, with a few differences. This chemical touches special `buttons' on brain cells called `receptors.' Essentially, marijuana `tickles' brain cells. The legal drug alcohol also tickles brain cells, but it will damage and kill them by producing toxins (poisons) and sometimes mini-seizures. Also, some drugs will wear out the buttons which they push, but marijuana does not. Excerpted from Cannabis FAQ Version: 1.0 by Brian S. Julin
© 1994

[vanessalynn5484]

The guy who wrote this has a bit of a political bias, but it doesn't sway the facts. I find it makes it more enjoyable.

[vanessalynn5484]

Evidence Found of Ancient Marijuana Use Albany (NY) Times Union
May 20, 1993



(attributed to Newsday) The first physical evidence that marijuana was used as a medicine in the ancient Mideast was reported Wednesday by Israeli scientists who found residue of the drug with the skeleton of a girl who apparently died in childbirth 1,600 years ago.
The researchers said the marijuana probably was used by a mid-wife trying to speed the birth, as well as ease the pain.
Until now, the researchers wrote in a letter to the journal Nature, "physical evidence of cannabis (marijuana) use in the ancient Middle East has not yet been obtained."
The seven researchers -- from Hebrew University, the Israel Antiquities Authority and the National Police Headquarters forensic division -- said references to marijuana as a medicine are seen as far back as 1,600 B.C. in Egyptian, Assyrian, Greek and Roman writings. But physical evidence that the hemp weed, cannabis sativa, was used for that purpose has been missing.
The researchers' examination of an undisturbed family tomb near Jerusalem dating to the fourth century AD indicated the girl, about 14, died because her pelvis was too small to permit normal birth.

[sjchickie]

Such great information vanessa....You have proven everyone of these people wrong. Friskey whiskey I completely agree that driving is wrong. IF they decided to legalize the stuff....I would 100% agree to any stipulation put forth by the government to protect its people. Some will not follow it but people dont follow the booze thing and its much harder to drive drunk.

Secondly your right about G Bush not wanting it legalized here. Screw him we are an independent country. What the need to do is decriminalize it more so than they already have. Keep the laws on people who grow big amounts to make profit. and allow everyone to grow and possess up to so much for there own personal use. Prosecute those who dont. Simple as that. Dont legalize it than it will be goverment controlled, the strains wont be as good, and frankly i'd rather grow 2 of my own plants than buy plain old dope at a convience store but thats another issue.

You can carry pot right now and its not an criminal offence. its either NOTHING or a fine

Other countries have legalized it! The ONLY reason it hasnt been dealt with mjore here is because of the USA

[vanessalynn5484]

So the main argument seems to be that if marijuana were legal highway accidents and job misconduct would rise. Well I have been researching this and it looks as though the consensus of the Responsible Adult Cannabis smoker is to NOT smoke while driving. Especially if you are smoking strong marijuana and possibly not at all. And also to never smoke at your job if you are operating heavy machinery or people's lives are in your hands. There is an entire society or "scene" of responsible adult pot smokers and you probably wouldn't know if one was sitting beside you.

I found many articles proving that there is no evidence in countries where the drug is legal that accidents or misconduct increased. In fact in some reports it shows drivers who drove while high drove slower and were more cautious to observe all street signs, lights, and turn signals.

[The_Dave]

They drive slower because they are whacked, response time is slower, just like people who drink and drive. People under the influence whether it be drugs or alcohol and drive, kill innocent people. Proven fact. They should go to jail for MURDER.

[vanessalynn5484]

Actually no it's not a proven fact. I wasn't saying it was right I was saying what I read based on actual research :p And when I have read the same thing from various sources....Basically what I am doing is showing facts to back up my opinions and personal experiences.

I do not think you quite understand how marijuana effects the brain.

What I would recommend you do is to try a puff or two. Then get back to me in the morning.

[vanessalynn5484]

Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use
by NORML (http://www.norml.org/)
Feb 29, 1995

February 29, 1995, Washington D.C.: The National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, the nation's oldest and largest interest group dedicated solely to marijuana law reform, has adopted a set of Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use. NORML maintains that when marijuana is enjoyed responsibly, subjecting users to harsh criminal and civil penalties provides no public health benefit and causes terrible injustices. For reasons of public safety, public health, economics, and justice, the prohibition laws should be repealed to the extent that they criminalize responsible marijuana use. The key points to the Principles of Responsible Use are as follows:


Cannabis consumption is for adults only. Many things and activities are suitable for young people, but others absolutely are not. Children do not drive cars, enter into contracts or marry, and they must not use drugs
The responsible cannabis user does not operate a motor vehicle or other dangerous machinery impaired by cannabis. Although cannabis is said by most experts to be safer than alcohol and many prescription drugs with motorists, public safety demands that impaired drivers be taken off the road and that objective measures of impairment be developed and used, rather than chemical testing.
The responsible cannabis user will carefully consider his/her setting and regulate use accordingly. The responsible cannabis consumer will be vigilant as to conditions -- time, place, mood, etc. -- and does not hesitate to say "no" when those conditions are not conducive to a safe, pleasant and/or productive experience.
Use of cannabis, to the extent that it impairs health, personal development or achievement, is abuse and should be resisted by responsible cannabis users. Abuse means harm. Some cannabis use is harmful; most is not. That which is harmful should be discouraged; that which is not need not be.
The responsible cannabis user does not violate the rights of others, observes accepted standards of courtesy and public propriety, and respects the preferences of those who wish to avoid cannabis entirely. Regardless of the legal status of cannabis, responsible users will adhere to emerging tobacco smoking protocols in public and private places. For more information on the Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use, please contact
Allen St. Pierre of NORML @
(202)483-5*****

Also see this article from NORM : http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5722
Presidential Candidates Voice Opinions On The Medical Use Of Marijuana
August 7, 2003 - Washington, DC, USA


"It's promising to see many of the candidates distinguishing themselves from the Bush administration by taking positions in support of the medical use of marijuana," NORML Executive Director Says

[friskeywhiskey]

Quote:
Originally Posted by friskeywhiskey http://isaintjohn.com/classifieds/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://isaintjohn.com/classifieds/showthread.php?p=83123#post83123)
I
Some studies have shown that chronic pot smoking can actually bring on psychosis.

This is a myth. as posted by vanessalynn

To my knowledge this is not a myth at all. Think about it how many people do you know that chronically smoked pot then became paranoid. I know a couple people that smoked heavily with no effects then had to stop because they developed paranoia which heighten when they smoked. After quitting the paranoia stopped.
I am not saying that it happens to all chronic pot smokers but chronic pot smoking most definitely can and does bring on psychosis is some people.
And, there is research out there to prove it.

[vanessalynn5484]

It is 100% a myth. There is absolutely no possible way for marijuana to bring on psychosis in and adult who does not have is present them already.

[vanessalynn5484]

No there isn't research out there to prove it. Find it for me please and not from an Anti Drug web site that puts a spin on things. Find the actual evidence of a research study proving that marijuana "brings on" psychosis.

If your friends are paranoid from smoking pot then it is because of the location of the receptors in their brain and when inhibitions are lowered perhaps they tapped into paranoia which already existed there to begin with.

[rhiley_08j]

hey vanessa, I certainly enjoy all the information that you have presented so far, and I would like to agree with it. I am just wondering how someone who doesn't smoke weed, wanted to spend so much time researching it; and the information that you are relying your facts on are they strictly from sources found on the internet?

[vanessalynn5484]

I am quoting sources from the internet because for some me stating it isn't good enough and assume I am blind to the "facts".

I am not sure what you are getting at with the question about me not smoking. Maybe you think I do smoke and am not telling? Well I can't really get into the entire story in a public forum about why I know so much. I have smoked it before, not in extreme excess, before I had children.

Relations to individuals found me in situations and access to people with abundant knowledge about marijuana and that is all I can say about that. These relations continue in some circumstances which is why I can say I have clearly seen long term effects on various people.

Mostly everything I know I learned from people who knew what they were talking about and were immersed in the marijuana culture in one form or another.

When something effects your loved ones sometimes you will make a point to learn about it and sometimes you will become very intrigued by what you find out and want to learn more.

If you are getting at that the internet has sources which are unreliable, this is true, but these articles are from a very highly respected website which is a database for all studies and information related to many different drugs.

I do not really think I need to explain myself, if I want to prove someone wrong when I know what they are saying is untrue I may just feel the need to do it. Especially if I can lay out evidence in front of them. I am actually going to stop responding to comments in the thread because there is so much squabbling and such.

It is really immature and not needed. If you do not like marijuana than good for you. If you are paranoid when you smoke marijuana then do not smoke it, it's not for you. If you are concerned about illegal activity then know the facts behind why it's illegal and stop believing the crapflakes "reefer madness" and the government in spoon feeding us.

So basically I am now only interested in hearing constructive criticism or positive experiences. Such as someone who can bring something to table in the realm of "The Pot Thread" so it doesn't got to hell in a hand basket of taunts and unfair declarations

[richunclepennywise]

i'm not arguing with you...but i do wonder why one side of the argument can't use anti drug websites.....but it's okay to use pro pot sites?


personally i don't care if pot is legal or illegal, if you use it or don't.

[rhiley_08j]

Whoa Vanessa, I think you may have taken the tone of my words the wrong way. I am not trying to degrate what you are saying I was just merely curious in knowing how accurate your statements are. I agree with all of what you have said, (and not just because I smoke weed) but because if I was to use your arguments myself than I want to know if they are well founded. No offense intended. Sorry :)

[vanessalynn5484]

richunclepennywise it's crap like that I am talking about

and I rest my case.

[richunclepennywise]

sorry I don't know what you are meaning by crap like that?

and I didn't mean to offend you.

[vanessalynn5484]

Whoa Vanessa, I think you may have taken the tone of my words the wrong way. I am not trying to degrate what you are saying I was just merely curious in knowing how accurate your statements are. I agree with all of what you have said, (and not just because I smoke weed) but because if I was to use your arguments myself than I want to know if they are well founded. No offense intended. Sorry :)
Sorry it wasn't your comments that offended me it's how tiresome the argument is getting.


There is just tooooo much myths out there and people are hard as nails to see anything different than what the government tells them.

I am very cranky which has nothing to do with the forums today....so I sound a little witchy.

Why not quote and anti-drug website??? Can anyone else answer this question or do I really have to.....

[vanessalynn5484]

On Pro pot websites there may be bias because they are pro-pot, but they also state the bad and good about marijuana. At least the reputable ones do. To say there is nothing bad about marijuana is a lie. It is a lot harder for the pro pot website to prove it's case than for an anti-drug site. Everyone who has never tried marijuana is going to believe the anti-drug site naturally. They also twist things around to make it work to their benefit and no one is quick to call them on out on it, like say someone would to someone who is pro pot.

Most of the evidence I have read on pro pot sites were actual findings from research.

Anti-Drug websites are also usually directed at young people so scare tactics are understandable.

If I sound offended it's because I thought I already answered that question. I have to keep repeating myself :S. I am sorry I am a big grouch right now.

[rhiley_08j]

That's the thing though Vanessa, there is always two sides to a story and each represents facts that reinforce thier ideas. Depending on a person's attitude and state of mind before weighing the facts, determines on which side they will sway. Look at the thread that was started about global warming. People will always believe what they want to believe.

[vanessalynn5484]

Sent you a PM

[vanessalynn5484]

In the link I can sent you, you can find all of the resources sited that I left out for many of the articles I posted. Since they were linked directly to the site and I did not want to advertise said site, I left it out.

--not directed at you in particular--
I really think I am done with arguing my point as I think I have said all I can possibly say about this lol.
*without beating my face off of the keyboard*

[vanessalynn5484]

not worth my time posting in this thread anymore....too complicated.

[vanessalynn5484]

Who's Afraid of Wacky Tobaccy?

by Eric Brown

Issue date: 4/27/04 Section: Humor *link removed
Page 1 of 1One day a month or two ago, a friend of mine was looking a bit nervous. I asked him what the matter was, and he started talking about an upcoming drug test.
Drug test? Who are you, Barry Bonds?
He later explained to me that many companies require drug tests for their employees. As a summer hire, my friend would have to step up to the bucket, so to speak.
Now, this issue wasn't communicated to me in the mandatory **named of school*** sessions this fall.
It's a definite rude awakening. In business school, we implicitly live under the assumption that what happens in business school stays in business school. That illusion has been shattered like a poorly-made bong.
In my friend's situation, he ... uh ... inhaled previously in the year. Not being a BALCO nutritionist, he didn't know how long doobage stays in the plumbing, so to speak.
So he bought a home drug-test kit - yes, the kind nervous parents give to teenagers who come home with pierced noses - and turned on the waterworks. Great news - he passed!
My friend's skittishness isn't unique. Another friend of mine intentionally took a drug test before a weekend of big partying. Not that she was going to blaze up, but you know how it is - go to a club, have a few drinks, some Canadian snowboarders show up, and next thing you know the air smells like a Phish concert.
(Or like the air at a certain Stern party held on a Saturday in early April!)
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. It's all about how much value you create for your firm, and if you need to get high to bring in Benjamins, then more power too you.
Say you're going to work for a Wall Street firm - in the 1980s, they were blowing coke like crazy!
C'mon. How many times in 1985 do you think 34-year-old brokers snorted through $100 bills while yelling "I pity da fool who don't buy at 150!"
And look how much money they made! (Well, except for 1987.)
Maybe I'm biased because I'm in the media/entertainment industry. The only drug test I'll ever get would be to make sure there's something illicit in my pee* (expletive removed). Otherwise they'll think I'm a narc.
But some students are entering industries that, by the look of things, are run by total losers. Therefore, I feel that **named of school*** should do more to prepare us for these all-important tests. In particular, here's what needs to be addressed:
* How long does it take drugs to leave our systems?
* Do poppyseeds really make you test positive for heroin?
* Are catheters really that uncomfortable?
* If you test positive, is it an acceptable excuse to say, "Aw, man, that was second-hand smoke!"
* Failing that, does the "medicinal" argument work?
I believe this information would be most helpful to the next incoming Stern class. Still, there is the chance that some could flunk their drug tests.
For those people, all I can say is this: Chill out - it didn't hurt Robert Downey Jr.'s career!

[vanessalynn5484]

WACKY TOBACCY
By NRBQ

Wacky Tobacky
It made me feel so good
Wacky Tobacky
Just like it said it would

Everybody doing it
Asmoking and a chewin it
They're shippinand a buzzin it
And congress is discussing it
Oh! Listen to me
I wouldn't tell you no lie

Some folks are buying in
And then they're denying it
The scientists are testin' it
But you might get arrested
Cheese! And crackers
I wouldn't tell you no lie

Hey!
Wacky Tobaccy
It came from way down South
Wacky Tobaccy
Inhaled it with my mouth

Hey!
Wacky Tobaccy
It made me feel so weird
Wacky Tobaccy
I went and shaved my beard

The old people are trying it
While the younguns r getting high on it
Its weighted and its graded
But then it's confiscated
It's crackers to sliperazered
Oh, the dropsy and snide!

Wacky Tobaccy
I know just what to do
Wacky Tobaccy
Ill hide some in my shoe

Wacky Tobaccy�
I said,
Wacky Tobaccy!
Cha cha cha

The Pot- Tool- excerpted....
Liar, lawyer, mirror for ya: what's the difference?
Who are you to wave your mighty finger at me?
You must have been outch yor'mind
You must have BEEN HIGH!
So eyeballs deep in muddy water cause of your LIES
you must have been outch yor'mind
When you pissed all over my black kettle
You MUST HAVE been HIGH!